Wednesday, March 27, 2013

QUICK NOTES ON SOLA SCRIPTURA (Part 1)

“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 – NASV) 

This is the main passage that Protestants use to demonstrate the concept of “Sola Scriptura” (“Bible Alone”). Just as a reminder, Sola Scriptura simply means that Scripture is the only infallible Rule of Faith (or spiritual standard) for the church today. And it is therefore the final authority in spiritual matters.

We want to point out that there is a relentless attack on this Protestant interpretation of the passage above from many today (especially Catholics) who try to avoid its clear and simple message, and they use several common arguments. So, the purpose of this series of articles is to deal with these arguments by demonstrating their weaknesses.

Now, from the outset, we want to say that no single verse in the Bible contains ABSOLUTE PROOF of Sola Scriptura. The concept of Sola Scriptura is something that is derived from many verses. However, the passage above strongly implies this teaching.

Having said that, each of these articles will deal with only one specific argument at a time, mainly those surrounding 2 Timothy 3. So, let’s begin. Today’s specific argument is:

ARGUMENT #1 – “THE PASSAGE SAYS THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED, BUT NOT *ONLY* SCRIPTURE. SO, SOMETHING ELSE, LIKE “SACRED TRADITION,” COULD ALSO BE INFALLIBLE.

While it is true that the word “only” is not there, the context reveals that it is indeed Scripture that is able to equip each believer for every good work. The context is about an inspired (“God-breathed”) and infallible Rule of Faith to which the believer can turn in times of difficulty (3:1), persecution (3:12), and deception (3:13). If this Rule of Faith is able to equip someone FOR EVERY GOOD WORK, then it must be, by definition, sufficient as a Rule of Faith, and therefore, it is the only infallible source needed. This is just plain logic and common sense.

Consider this analogy: If a particular math book (as a tool for learning math) is profitable for simple math, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus, and it will equip you to handle every math problem, then, logically, it is the ONLY one you need, as math books go. No one should have a problem with this logic.

But in the same way, Paul tells us that the Bible (as a Rule of Faith) is profitable for doctrine, etc., and will equip you for every good work. So why wouldn’t the same logic apply? How can it NOT be sufficient if it equips you for ALL good works? And if we need another infallible source for the post-apostolic church, why does Paul not mention it here, in the context of a Rule of Faith? Notice that Paul never says, “Scripture equips you for every good work, EXCEPT for those works found in Tradition.” No, he doesn’t say anything like that. The Bible’s principles are sufficient for what the church needs to know and how the church needs to behave. He mentions no other infallible source here, but only points to Scripture.

Now, there are indeed other legitimate authorities, or rules of faith, in the church. For example, church leaders, theologians, the writings of the early church fathers, Bible commentaries, traditions, creeds, councils, catechisms, etc. But these are all lesser authorities and are subject to and tested by the Bible, since it is “God-breathed.” Thus, the Bible is the FINAL authority. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 not only implies sufficiency in its immediate context, but this sufficiency lines up with the whole of Scripture. The Bible is God’s blueprint for our lives and our spiritual roadmap, our infallible “toolbox” which equips us for EVERY good work. There is no rule of faith greater than it, nor is there one equal to it.

So, the fact that a particular word (i.e., “only”) is not in the passage is irrelevant. Context shows us that the CONCEPT is there.

21 comments:

  1. Hey, just wanted to let you know that I responded to your latest comments on calling priests "father." Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Here's the link:
    http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2013/03/on-calling-priests-father-part-3.html

    Peace of Christ to you!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Here's Part 4 in our debate:
    http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2013/04/on-calling-priests-father-part-4.html

    ReplyDelete
  3. Russell ... are you interested in continuing our debate on the ministerial priesthood? I owe you a response to the last comment you left here:
    http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2009/05/does-bible-say-anyting-about-having.html

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Nicholas,

    I'm pretty busy right now, but go ahead and leave a comment. I'll get to it as soon as I can.

    In His Name,
    Russell

    ReplyDelete
  5.  Hi Russell,
    Longtime no see. I'm going to respond to your article and simultaneously post my comments on my blog. I hope you have time to respond.


    Wednesday, March 27, 2013
    QUICK NOTES ON SOLA SCRIPTURA (Part 1)
    “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 – NASV) 

    This is a beautiful verse which is totally misunderstood by Protestants. The verse tells us that all of Scripture was written by man through God's prompting. God didn't write Scripture. Nor is writing Scripture the only thing which God prompted man to do. The explanation to this verse is found in 2 Peter 1: 19-21.

    2 Peter 1:19-21
    Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
    19 And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

    As you can see, holy men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit to preach the word of God. They preached first and then they wrote. Therefore, Scripture alone was not inspired of God. That is to say, Scripture and tradition were inspired of God. Both. Together. Not one by itself without the other.  

    I won't take too much more time on this verse because you use it frequently and I'll have plenty more opportunities to explain how you are misusing it.


    Continued

    ReplyDelete
  6. Continued

    This is the main passage that Protestants use to demonstrate the concept of “Sola Scriptura” (“Bible Alone”). Just as a reminder, Sola Scriptura simply means that Scripture is the only infallible Rule of Faith (or spiritual standard) for the church today. And it is therefore the final authority in spiritual matters.

    That's what I like about you Russell, you are the bravest Protestant run across. Now you say that Sola Scriptura means that Scripture is the only infallible Rule of Faith for the church today. So, I would like you to point that out in Scripture.

    The reason for this request should be plain. If this rule is not in Scripture then sola Scriptura contradicts itself. Sola Scriptura is a rule which cannot be found in Scripture. Yet it requires that all rules be found in Scripture.


    We want to point out that there is a relentless attack on this Protestant interpretation of the passage above from many today (especially Catholics) who try to avoid its clear and simple message, and they use several common arguments. So, the purpose of this series of articles is to deal with these arguments by demonstrating their weaknesses.

    Now, from the outset, we want to say that no single verse in the Bible contains ABSOLUTE PROOF of Sola Scriptura. The concept of Sola Scriptura is something that is derived from many verses. However, the passage above strongly implies this teaching.

    Having said that, each of these articles will deal with only one specific argument at a time, mainly those surrounding 2 Timothy 3. So, let’s begin. Today’s specific argument is:

    ARGUMENT #1 – “THE PASSAGE SAYS THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED, BUT NOT *ONLY* SCRIPTURE. SO, SOMETHING ELSE, LIKE “SACRED TRADITION,” COULD ALSO BE INFALLIBLE.

    While it is true that the word “only” is not there, the context reveals that it is indeed Scripture that is able to equip each believer for every good work. 

    That's not true. Let's look at the verse carefully. Is he talking mainly about Scripture? Or is he talking about teaching?

    Let's look at the whole letter of 2 Timothy. From the first chapter, St. Paul is exhorting St. Timothy to teach.

    2 Timothy 1:8 Do not be ashamed then of testifying to our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but take your share of suffering for the gospel in the power of God,

    2 Timothy 2:1 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, 2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. 
    He only briefly mentioned Scripture in chapter 3 and even then within the overall context of TEACHING.

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,



    Continued

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  7. Continued

    The context is about an inspired (“God-breathed”) and infallible Rule of Faith to which the believer can turn in times of difficulty (3:1), persecution (3:12), and deception (3:13). If this Rule of Faith is able to equip someone FOR EVERY GOOD WORK, then it must be, by definition, sufficient as a Rule of Faith, and therefore, it is the only infallible source needed. This is just plain logic and common sense.

    It is the teaching of the Word of God in Scripture and tradition which equips the man of God for every good work.

    Consider this analogy: If a particular math book (as a tool for learning math) is profitable for simple math, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus, and it will equip you to handle every math problem, then, logically, it is the ONLY one you need, as math books go. No one should have a problem with this logic.

    No one except those who have actually studied math. I went to 12 years of elementary school in four years of college. Every math class had a teacher explaining the contents of the books from which we studied.

    But in the same way, Paul tells us that the Bible (as a Rule of Faith) is profitable for doctrine, etc

    "Profitable" does not mean necessary.

    and will equip you for every good work. 

    He is speaking within the context of teaching. Not passing out Bibles. He said the Bible is a good book to use to support your teaching, reproof, correction, and for training in righteousness. This strongly insinuates that there is someone standing there interpreting the Scripture for you and telling you what it means.
    St. Paul is explicitly telling St. Timothy that this is his role.


    Continued

    ReplyDelete
  8. Continue

    So why wouldn’t the same logic apply? How can it NOT be sufficient if it equips you for ALL good works? And if we need another infallible source for the post-apostolic church, why does Paul not mention it here, in the context of a Rule of Faith? Notice that Paul never says, “Scripture equips you for every good work, EXCEPT for those works found in Tradition.” No, he doesn’t say anything like that. The Bible’s principles are sufficient for what the church needs to know and how the church needs to behave. He mentions no other infallible source here, but only points to Scripture.

    He doesn't need to point to any other infallible source here. He has already mentioned it many times in other scriptures. Take for instance, Ephesians 3:10. Here he teaches us that the church teaches the wisdom of God. Obviously, the church is infallible. It must be in order to teach the wisdom of God.
    In another verse, 1 Timothy 3:15, he says the church is the pillar of truth. In order to be the pillar of truth, the church must always uphold the truth. Obviously then, the church must be infallible.
    The entire letter of 2 Timothy is written in the context of this Christian doctrine. Therefore, he doesn't need to mention it again.


    Now, there are indeed other legitimate authorities, or rules of faith, in the church. For example, church leaders, theologians, the writings of the early church fathers, Bible commentaries, traditions, creeds, councils, catechisms, etc. But these are all lesser authorities and are subject to and tested by the Bible, since it is “God-breathed.” Thus, the Bible is the FINAL authority. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 not only implies sufficiency in its immediate context, but this sufficiency lines up with the whole of Scripture. The Bible is God’s blueprint for our lives and our spiritual roadmap, our infallible “toolbox” which equips us for EVERY good work. There is no rule of faith greater than it, nor is there one equal to it.

    So, the fact that a particular word (i.e., “only”) is not in the passage is irrelevant. Context shows us that the CONCEPT is there.

    In this final paragraph, you mix a great deal of error with the truth. The word of God, is the highest authority. But Tradition AND Scripture both contain the word of God.
    The church herself teaches that she is the servant of the word of God. She does this by making certain that the word of God is taught correctly both in Tradition and Scripture.
    Sincerely,
    De Maria

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hello again De Maria,

    I think we’ve been through this argument (where you appeal to “Tradition”) already. In fact, I know we have. The readers can see my article and our detailed discussion in the comments section here:

    http://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-about-tradition.html

    I don’t see any use in rehashing the same old debates when you are not providing any new arguments.

    In His Name,
    Russell

    ReplyDelete
  10. POWERFUL SOLA SCRIPTURA PROOF TEXTS


    I. The example of Jesus: Quoted scripture, never tradition:

    A. Jesus defeated the three temptations of the Devil with, "it is written", not "I say". Mt 4:1-11
    1.The Temptation of Jesus: Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself! If any one could have used oral tradition, it was Jesus, yet he chose the only safe and sure way to defeat Satan: Scripture. We just with that the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches held scripture alone in the same high regard!
    2.Traditionalists have simply not comprehended just how devastating it is that Jesus never appealed to his own authority in his 40 days temptation in the wilderness with the Devil.
    3.Three times Jesus was tempted, three times Jesus replied, "It is written".
    4.If oral tradition, or the authority of the church was valid, then Jesus would have at least one time referred to oral tradition, or used himself as the authority, as the Catholics, Orthodox and JW's use the church organization as an authority.

    B. Never did Jesus refer to oral tradition to prove or defend truth.
    1.Never does Jesus refer to oral traditions in a positive way.
    2.Every time he defends truth he refers to the scriptures.
    3.The only times Jesus referred to Oral traditions, was condemning them: 'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death'; but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that." (Mark 7:7-13)

    C. Jesus made over 100 references to scripture. Jesus never relies upon oral traditions but scripture alone. Let's follow the Lord's pattern of relying upon scripture!
    1."Have you not read" Matthew 12:3
    2."have you not read in the Law" Matthew 12:5
    3."Did you never read in the Scriptures" Matthew 21:42

    Jesse

    ReplyDelete
  11. Part 2


    D. Jesus expected the scriptures to be understood by the average man, even his enemies:
    1."What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" (Luke 10:26)
    2.Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God? (Mark 12:24)
    3.But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Matthew 22:29)
    4."The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him" There were any oral traditions as to who the messiah was. All were wrong! Some thought he was merely a king, some merely a prophet, some merely a priest! (Matthew 26:24)
    5."What then is this that is written: 'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone'? (Luke 20:17)
    6."You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me (John 5:39)
    7."How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?" (Matthew 26:54)

    II. The example of the apostles using Sola Scriptura:

    A. Even though the apostles were inspired with genuine oral revelation, they always directed people to the scriptures for the final determination of truth. Oral tradition is worthless without the witness of scripture!
    1.And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2)
    2.Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men. (Acts 17:11-12)
    3."Apollos powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ." (Acts 18:28)

    B. Scriptures were read in the churches every Lord's Day:
    1.Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. (1 Timothy 4:13)

    III. Powerful Sola Scriptura proof texts:

    A. Abide only within scripture to the exclusion of oral tradition:1 Corinthians 4:6
    1.Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. 1 Corinthians 4:6
    2.Jesus said, "upon this rock I will build My church" and Paul warned: "in building the church, do not exceed scripture!"

    ReplyDelete
  12. (Part 3)


    B. Scripture is understandable, even by young children:
    1."from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:15
    2."if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; Ephesians 3:2-5
    3."For we write nothing else to you than what you read and understand, and I hope you will understand until the end" 2 Corinthians 1:13

    C. Scripture alone is all-sufficient for life, morality, conduct and doctrine:
    1."All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    2."I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:14-15
    3."seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust." 2 Peter 1:3-4
    4.My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. 1 John 2:1




    D. The Gospel of John, by itself, is sufficient to bring about saving faith in Christ without oral traditions and the other three gospels! Actually, this may be true of each of the four gospels, although it is only stated by John:
    1.Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31)

    E. Scripture alone is all-sufficient for complete hope, joy and assurance of salvation without any oral tradition:
    1.For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Romans 15:4)
    2.These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.1 John 1:4
    3.These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13


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  13. (Part 4)


    E. Scripture alone is all-sufficient for complete hope, joy and assurance of salvation without any oral tradition:
    1.For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Romans 15:4)
    2.These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.1 John 1:4
    3.These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

    F. Scripture is the standard to which oral tradition may not be added:

    Although Roman Catholic and Orthodox defenders dismiss Rev 22:18 as applying only to the single book of revelation, these four texts prove it is a principle that applies to the whole Bible. Notice also that God knew that Revelation was the last book of the 66 book canon and that the warning not to add or take away from scripture is at the very end of the very last book of the canon. This simply cannot be coincidence but is God's eternal warning not to use oral traditions in addition to scripture! Although Revelation was not always placed in its current position at the end of the Bible, everyone always realized that it was the last book written.
    1."I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
    2."You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
    3."Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32
    4."Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar." Proverbs 30:5-6

    G. Scripture is the Lord's command:
    1.If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. 1 Corinthians 14:37

    H. Scripture is the standard through which Jesus will judge:

    The words of Christ are only known today from scripture. Although traditionalists claim oral tradition, they cannot come up with even one thing Jesus said, that is not recorded in scripture that will judge us. Scripture is the all-sufficient standard for the "words of Jesus". Although we cannot be certain that the phrase, "books were opened" in Rev 20:12, refers to 66 books of scripture, we are certain that no oral tradition is part of Judgement. The passage clearly states that books, to the exclusion of oral tradition, is the standard of judgement. The Law of Liberty in Jas 2:12 is a direct reference to scripture.
    1."He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. John 12:48
    2.And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. Revelation 20:12
    3.So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. James 2:12

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  14. (Part 5)


    I. Scripture is how we are reminded of oral traditions, proving oral tradition is replace by scripture:

    "This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles." 2 Peter 3:1-2
    1.Here we have a reference to oral traditions, "spoken beforehand".
    2.Although traditionalists claim oral tradition, they cannot come up with even one phrase or the apostles Jesus said, that is not recorded in scripture!
    3.Yet Peter uses scripture as the method of reminding Christians of this oral tradition.
    4.Since there is no known "oral tradition" of the specific words spoken, it is obvious that scripture replaced oral tradition.

    J. Scripture alone brings certainty in the midst of various oral traditions, proving oral tradition is unreliable: Luke 1:1-4
    1."Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught." Luke 1:1-4
    2.Luke begins by mentioning uninspired gospels by Christians, then the oral tradition of the apostles and concludes that scripture alone will allow Theophilus to know for certain what the truth is!

    Russell, I believe these texts should suffice in refuting the false claims made by De Maria... Catholics cry," Scripture and tradition!'' While the Bible tells us that it is sufficient in itself. What do you think about this?

    Jesse


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  15. Hi Jesse,

    You had a lot of good points in your comments here. But I want you to be aware of the responses from Catholics that are sure to come concerning some of the things you mentioned.

    You see, Jesse, they will certainly agree that Scripture IS an authority, but that it’s just not the ONLY authority. The Bible does talk about tradition in a positive sense, for example, in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, where Paul tells us to “hold to” certain traditions. Paul also tells us in 1 Corinthians 11:2 to “maintain the traditions” that he had delivered to the Corinthians earlier. Catholics also love to use 2 Timothy 2:2 and 1 Thessalonians 2:13 as “proof” of our necessity to trust in tradition. Although the word “tradition” is not used in these last two verses, Catholics insist that these refer to their (Catholic) Tradition.

    But no one can say exactly what it was (apart from Scripture) that Paul was referring to when he said to maintain certain traditions. In the same way, one major problem for Catholics is that they cannot tell us exactly what their own “infallible,” “Sacred Tradition” is. They have no meaningful definition of this thing, as my article “What About Tradition?” demonstrates. See here:

    http://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-about-tradition.html

    Also, Jesse, in my experience with Catholics, when you point out Jesus’ words “It is written,” they will reply with “But it doesn’t say ONLY the written!” That’s why I usually try to stick with 2 Timothy 3:16-17 to prove the “only” (or “sola”) part of Sola Scriptura. The verses you shared are good, but I would use these for complementing and supporting 2 Timothy as the main passage. I agree with you that Acts 17:11 and 1 Corinthians 4:6 are also both great verses to supplement 2 Timothy.

    There is also a good article here touching on Sola Scriptura, and it also deals with the pope issue:

    http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2013/09/no-roman-catholic-can-deal-with-2-peter.html

    Jesse, good luck and God bless you as you continue to discuss these important issues with Catholics!

    In His Name,
    Russell

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    Replies
    1. Hello Russell,

      Thanks for responding, I appreciate your input. When those Papists come to attack what I have posted, I will respond back to them with an irrefutable blow from the Scriptures (if I am available). If I am not, then would you at least try to defend what I have written since I am just attempting to prove a point? I have another concern on my plate. What if De Maria attacks what I have posted? We certainly cannot allow him to ruin your webpage and tell outward fables and twist the truth (I worry).

      Jesse

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  16. Hello Jesse,

    Please understand that this is not just about who “wins the argument” – it’s about sharing the truth of the Word of God as accurately as possible and as charitably as possible, and using good old common sense. Then, we let it stand. I really appreciate your concern, but we don’t have to worry about anyone “ruining my webpage.” The truth speaks for itself. I don’t mean this at all in an arrogant way, but this applies to anyone sharing the gospel. There will always be some who will agree and some who won’t. That’s just how it is. Christians who speak the truth will certainly not win any popularity contests.

    But after prayerfully doing your best to present the truth of God’s Word, rest assured that His truth will bear fruit in due season in the lives of those you are sharing with. I will certainly try to help and defend you, or anyone for that matter, as long as they are operating in the right spirit and what they are sharing is biblical.

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    Replies
    1. Russell,

      Long time since I have bothered you....

      The context cannot simply just be talking about scripture because 2 Timothy 2:21 and 2 Timothy 3:14 mentions sacred tradition. So, the argument you attempted to refute withstands your rebuttal.

      You said,"Consider this analogy: If a particular math book (as a tool for learning math) is profitable for simple math, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus, and it will equip you to handle every math problem, then, logically, it is the ONLY one you need, as math books go. No one should have a problem with this logic."

      Since you need a math teacher to help you understand the mathematical concepts introduced in that math textbook, you would need an infallible interpreter (the pope) to explain the meaning of Scripture to you.

      You said, " But these are all lesser authorities and are subject to and tested by the Bible, since it is “God-breathed.” Thus, the Bible is the FINAL authority. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 not only implies sufficiency in its immediate context, but this sufficiency lines up with the whole of Scripture. The Bible is God’s blueprint for our lives and our spiritual roadmap, our infallible “toolbox” which equips us for EVERY good work. There is no rule of faith greater than it, nor is there one equal to it."

      But where is any of this found in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:15 and Matthew 16:18)?

      Jonathon

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    2. Hi Russell,

      Long time since I have bothered you....

      The context cannot be talking about "scripture alone" because 2 Timothy 2:21 and 2 Timothy 3:14 mentions sacred tradition. So, the argument you attempted to refute withstands your rebuttal.

      You said,"Consider this analogy: If a particular math book (as a tool for learning math) is profitable for simple math, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus, and it will equip you to handle every math problem, then, logically, it is the ONLY one you need, as math books go. No one should have a problem with this logic."

      Since you need a math teacher to help you understand the mathematical concepts introduced in that math textbook, you would need an infallible interpreter (the pope) to explain the meaning of Scripture to you.

      You said, " But these are all lesser authorities and are subject to and tested by the Bible, since it is “God-breathed.” Thus, the Bible is the FINAL authority. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 not only implies sufficiency in its immediate context, but this sufficiency lines up with the whole of Scripture."

      If 2 Timothy 3:16-17 proves the sufficiency of Scripture, then the verse would simply prove way too much, since many New Testament books were not even written yet. In other words, you are basically arguing that only the Old Testament Scriptures are a sufficient rule of faith. What about the New Testament?

      You also asserted, "The Bible is God’s blueprint for our lives and our spiritual roadmap, our infallible “toolbox” which equips us for EVERY good work. There is no rule of faith greater than it, nor is there one equal to it."

      It is true that the Bible is the compass that leads us to our eternal salvation but you need the infallible Church to infallibly interpret that "spiritual roadmap" and the infallible mechanic to infallibly apply that "infallible toolbox". In order to be equipped for " EVERY GOOD WORK", we need to have a proper understanding of the Scriptures.

      The greatest "rule of faith" is Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18), not the Bible!

      Before throwing any stones at me, please recognize that I am not saying that the Bible is a "dead letter" as most Catholics would argue. I am simply stating that the Bible is very difficult to understand (since our minds are corrupt).

      Jonathon

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  17. Hi Jonathon,

    Thanks for your comments.

    You said:

    “The context cannot simply just be talking about scripture because 2 Timothy 2:21 and 2 Timothy 3:14 mentions sacred tradition. So, the argument you attempted to refute withstands your rebuttal.”

    2 Timothy 2:21 says nothing about “Tradition,” nor is it even in the context of the verse in question (2 Timothy 3:16-17). 2 Timothy 3:14 comes closer to it, and is often used by Catholics to support “Tradition.” However, 3:14 does not specify the things that Timothy “had learned and become convinced of.” Do you know exactly what all these things were? Do you have a copy of these, Jonathon? Does anyone? No. So, until you can clearly reveal the precise contents of what Timothy had learned from Paul, you cannot attach it to “Catholic Tradition.”

    I had used an analogy of a math book and you said:

    “Since you need a math teacher to help you understand the mathematical concepts introduced in that math textbook, you would need an infallible interpreter (the pope) to explain the meaning of Scripture to you.”

    Jonathan, no one denies that we need teachers in the church. But nowhere does the Bible say that we need an INFALLIBLE teacher to understand Scripture.

    You said:

    “The greatest “rule of faith” is Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18), not the Bible!”

    Ok, I agree. But where else do we find any of His words except in the Bible?

    You said:

    “Before throwing any stones at me, please recognize that I am not saying that the Bible is a ‘dead letter’ as most Catholics would argue. I am simply stating that the Bible is very difficult to understand (since our minds are corrupt).”

    Jonathon, I respect you for not saying that Scripture is a “dead letter,” and I know that many Catholics DO see it that way. So, I commend you for that. You also make a good point in saying that the Bible is indeed sometimes difficult to understand. But that difficulty is lessened through a humble and honest personal study of it. Some of it may be difficult, but it is not impossible. Group Bible studies can also be very beneficial. But remember, a solid understanding of the Bible does not come overnight. Some of our best understanding can come from those who have spent years studying it.

    Some things may be harder to understand, but many things are very clear in the Bible. And once the clear things are established and understood, we then have a basis for understanding the harder things. The clearer things must interpret the not-so-clear things. And any interpretation that would contradict a clear teaching has to be ruled out. This is sometimes called “the analogy of faith.”

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