“IF YOU CAN’T FIND JESUS, LOOK FOR HIS MOTHER”

I had seen bumper stickers of the title above and had also heard similar comments from certain Catholics.  I know that sometimes it may seem that God doesn’t hear our prayers, yet it is one of the most basic needs of a believer to have his prayers answered.  We all want to know that somebody’s listening.  I understand that, and I understand the seeming desperation that most of us have experienced at some point in our lives.    

But this title reminds me of the story of a man who fell off the edge of a cliff at night and managed to grab onto a small shrub on the way down, hanging on for dear life between Heaven and earth.  In the dark, he was unaware that safe and solid ground was only a couple of feet beneath him.  The desperate man calls out several times for help and no one answers.  Finally, he hears a loud voice from Heaven that says, “If you trust Me, let go!”  The desperate man pauses and thinks for a minute and then yells, “Is there anyone else out there?!!” 

Although the story is intended to be funny, there is a disturbing truth within it that causes some to want a “back-up” when praying.  What if God doesn’t answer your plea for help?  Is your need so strong that you are willing to compromise your spiritual walk with God?  Perhaps you, like King Saul, are desperate enough to go to a psychic or a fortune teller if God doesn’t answer? (1 Samuel 28:7-19)

Hopefully, you would never do such a thing, since this would have dire spiritual consequences (Leviticus 19:26, 31; 20:6, 27; 2 Kings 21:6; Isaiah 8:19-22).  You may never even consider such a thing… yet, you may feel like God is “uninterested” or “too busy,” therefore it’s ok, as a Catholic, to call on some other “positive” spiritual entity to help you, like Mary (Jesus’ mother). 

Surely, if Mary appeals to Jesus for you, He couldn’t turn her down, right?  After all, she is His mother, and as a kid, we know that if you wanted something, but you were afraid to ask your father, Mom would often step in to increase your chances of finding favor.  Therefore, it only seems fitting to call on Mary to do the same for you, right?

Several Assumptions

This slogan, “If you can’t find Jesus, look for His mother” assumes several things.  First, it assumes that one can have the ability to communicate with Mary to start with.  It also assumes that one has God’s permission, that it’s ok, to appeal to Mary and ask for her help.  And if it is ok, it assumes that she can actually hear us.  And if she hears us, it also assumes that she is able to help us in some way.

Furthermore, this slogan is assuming that sometimes we (perhaps “less spiritual”) believers just can’t “find” Jesus like we should.  But why would anyone who has any biblical understanding think that? (Matthew 7:7-8; 11:28; 1 Peter 5:6-7)

The slogan is also assuming that Jesus may not be touched by, or concerned with, our needs.  After all, He’s busy running the universe!  What makes us think that we are significant enough to even be on His “radar”?  But seriously, are Catholics really not aware that He is indeed conscious of our needs?

Hard to Find?

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.  For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.  Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” (Hebrews 4:14-16)

Jesus, Himself, as a human, had needs and was tempted to sin, so He knows what it’s like to be human and He knows our weaknesses.  Either, this passage is a lie or it is the truth.  Its message is very simple, nothing vague about it.  It is telling us that we can, indeed should, call on Him in time of need.  Trusting in Him is how we hold fast to our profession.

But appealing in prayer to someone else (even someone in Heaven, like Mary) is not “holding fast to our profession.”  In fact, doing so would deviate from our profession.  How so?  This passage is magnifying the person and role of our New Testament High Priest, Jesus Christ.  It is pointing to Him alone.

In the case of those who say, “If you can’t find Jesus, look for His mother,” their interpretation of Hebrews 4:14-16 would have to be: “Hey everyone, let’s give honor to Jesus, the Son of God, who has entered Heaven on our behalf and to whom we can directly and boldly come, without hesitation to help us in time of need (whether for salvation or anything else)… BUT, we will go to Mary first!”  I’m sorry, but that’s not giving Jesus the honor He deserves (Revelation 17:14, 19:16) and that’s not putting Him first and foremost.

But is Jesus ever really “hard to find”?  His offer to “come boldly unto the throne of grace” does not permit the idea of praying to someone else in order to get to Him.  It does not leave room for an appeal to another person in Heaven.  He doesn’t say, “Come boldly unto the throne of grace and if I have time, I’ll try to get to you.”  Or, “Come boldly unto the throne of grace by going through other ‘mediators’ first who can then get My attention.”  Or, “Come through My mother, who always puts in a good word for you and convinces Me to help you.  Otherwise, I might not be interested.” 

No, there is no guessing what Hebrews 4:14-16 is saying.  If you turn your heart toward Him and seek Him, you will find Him.  He will make Himself known to you without having to go through other “heavenly intercessors.”  That’s a promise.  To say that there are others to which one should pray is simply eisegesis (reading something into the text that is not there).

On Whom are You Really Depending?

Now, Catholics will say, “But we, just like you Protestants, also rely on people here on earth when we ask them to pray for us.  So why can’t we appeal to Mary or the saints in Heaven, who are far more spiritual than anyone on earth?  Their prayers are stronger than anyone else’s.”

But requesting prayer from others here on earth is perfectly fine.  That is totally biblical, while requesting prayer from others who are supposedly in Heaven is not.  Catholics just don’t seem to get the concept that there are absolutely no examples in the whole Bible of anyone praying to Mary or the saints, and there is nothing to suggest that we should.  That idea is utterly absent from the pages of Scripture.  Yet, that doesn’t stop Catholics from doing it.  This is because they are simply being a faithful son or daughter of “Holy Mother Church.”  You are doing what the Catholic Church tells you to do.

This whole concept of depending on Mary’s intercession appears to be saying that somehow, we can better depend on her than we can on Jesus.  So, I would have to ask, when addressing Mary in prayer, on whom are you really depending? 

A Purely Human Concept

Recently, a devout Catholic and I were having a nice discussion and the conversation led to Mary and the subject of praying to her.  At this point, the Catholic gave that familiar comment and said something along these lines: “If, for some reason, you find it hard to pray to Jesus, pray to His mother, instead.  She will surely hear you and appeal to her Son to help you.” 

Well, that sounds good, but this is purely a human (and unbiblical) mindset.  Yes, on earth, moms generally intercede for their kids when speaking to their fathers.  And that’s because many fathers may be harsh and unloving – nothing like the High Priest in Heaven to which we have access today.  But He is a gracious Savior who knows what you need before you even ask (Matthew 6:7-8).  He just wants you to admit your need and come humbly, yet confidently, to Him.  He wants you to come directly to the Savior, not to a relative of the Savior.

Pointing to Jesus

Catholics are quick to say that Mary always points to Christ.  For example, they love to use this particular verse:

“His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it” (John 2:5). 

And then they say, “See!  Approaching Mary is a good thing, since she always points to her Son.”  But every true Christian does that.  How does that separate Mary from other believers?  It doesn’t. 

And while we are on that topic, “pointing to Jesus” was exactly what John the baptist was doing when he said:

“He [Jesus] must increase, but I must decrease” (John 3:30). 

THAT is pointing to Jesus and honoring Him, and John did this while denying himself and lowering his own importance.  But, it’s funny, I have never seen a Catholic ever use this verse to apply to Mary decreasing.  Why do you think that is?  I’ll tell you why.  I believe that they will never accept any lowering of Mary’s status, never admitting that Mary must also decrease, because the Catholic Church will not let them. 

Interestingly, there are far, far more Catholic shrines that were built to honor her than there are to Jesus, and I’ve never seen a pope or any other Catholic official object to this.  The Catholic Church will turn its head the other way when there are large numbers of people who are giving Mary “excessive devotion” (using the Catholic Church’s own term).  No one seems to object to that.   But don’t you dare suggest that Mary diminish her own status!  The Church will simply not let that happen.  

A Bit Much!

For instance, look at this prayer from a doctor and “saint” of the Catholic Church named Liguori:

"Most Holy and Immaculate Virgin! O my Mother! Thou who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, Hope, and Refuge of sinners! I, the most wretched among them, now come to thee. I worship thee, great Queen, and give thee thanks for the many favors thou hast bestowed on me in the past; most of all do I thank thee for having saved me from hell, which I had so often deserved.  I love thee, Lady most worthy of love, and, by the love which I bear thee, I promise ever in the future to serve thee, and to do what in me lies to win others to thy love.  In thee I put all my trust, all my hope of salvation…” (emphasis added)

See here:

http://laudatedominum.net/marian.php#sal

If this doesn’t offend you as a believer, there is something wrong with you.  These are things said of Mary that the true and biblical Mary would never accept or attribute to herself. 

Actually, the above prayer is from Liguori’s very popular book, The Glories of Mary.  You can find the book online here:

http://www.themostholyrosary.com/the-glories-of-mary.pdf

It’s funny that some will object that Liguori’s “worship” doesn’t really mean worship, yet the extravagant language they use exposes them.  As the old saying goes, “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is probably a duck!”  The activity around Mary is, by definition, worship, regardless of what the non-biblical detractors want it to mean. 

And this is only one of a multitude of blasphemous comments and prayers in his book. 

See also this article addressing Liguori’s book here:

https://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2019/04/liguoris-idolatry-and-catholic-churchs.html

Furthermore, I think that another reason for not allowing Mary’s status to diminish is that the Catholic Church plans to use this unbiblical version of her as a tool in the global ecumenical arena to form a one-world religion as the Bible predicts (Revelation 13:8).  As one source describes it, she is:

“… rapidly becoming the ‘queen of ecumenism,’ someone whom diverse religions can honor, rally around, and even worship without offending their respective theologies.” 

Very well said!

See here:

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/mary-who?sapurl=Lys5MjZkL2xiL2xpLyt3dm44dWs4P2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZSZyZWNlbnRSb3V0ZT1hcHAud2ViLWFwcC5saWJyYXJ5Lmxpc3QmcmVjZW50Um91dGVTbHVnPSUyQnd2bjh1azg=

Conclusion

It is critical to remember that there must be a clear distinction between mankind and the Savior of mankind.  The problem with the Catholic Church’s magnifying of Mary is that it causes this distinction to be blurred by such exalted language.

All this boils down to the fact that the Catholic Church wants Mary to remain exalted, even at the expense of Jesus losing status and staying in the background.  Of course they won’t say this out loud, but this is the logical consequence of a “continually increasing” Mary. 

It is also interesting that many pictures we see of Mary often have her holding the “baby Jesus.”  Folks, let’s not forget that He grew up and that He performed His ministry and death on the cross (the most important part of His life) as an adult, not while on His mom’s lap.  It’s as though there is a force in the Catholic Church that wants Mary to appear to be the one in control, to be the main figure, while Jesus is depicted as a toddler in need of guidance.

Now, I’m certainly not saying that Mary shouldn’t have honor, since the Bible says to give honor to whom honor is due (Romans 13:7).  But praying to someone other than God is not “honor” – it is worship.  All Christians will be exalted in due time, but never as the object of prayer. (Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 22:8-9)

Again, Mary was a wonderful, humble and godly handmaid, whom I believe is in Heaven today, but I’m sure that never did she expect to have such attention, devotion, veneration and idolization directed toward her.  But if God would allow her, from Heaven, to see all this attention directed toward her, I would bet that the humble Mary of the Bible would be utterly grieved and weep over it.  And I believe that she would say, “If you can’t find Jesus, humble yourself and continue seeking Him, since He is always nearby!” (Matthew 11:28; Acts 17:27)

EXCESSIVE DEVOTION TO MARY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

 

I recently ran across an article on a website that featured an “Ask a Priest” section.  In this particular article, an upset and frustrated woman writes in and asks the priest about Marian devotion, i.e., the intense devotion, prayers and attention directed to Mary, the mother of Jesus.

I believe that this lady was more discerning and more honest with the biblical evidence than most Catholics.  She explains that she and her husband were former Protestants, but had now been Catholic for years.  Yet, they still struggled with all the attention Mary receives.  She went on to say, “To us she receives more prayers, attention, devotion, processions and obedience than Jesus, which to us still after all these years is worship and not mere veneration.”

Yes, indeed, and it is generally referred to by Catholics as “excessive devotion.”  But the Bible calls it idolatry (Acts 17:16, 22-23).

This woman tells how this teaching had been bothering them for years and she explains what happened one day when she went to confession: “For penance the priest told me to ask Mary to pardon my sins and then say five Hail Mary’s.”  This, of course, seriously bothered her and she states, “… I had been struggling to go to church because of Mary, and now I never want to go back, not to any church.”

See the article here:

https://rcspirituality.org/ask_a_priest/ask-a-priest-what-if-marian-devotion-seems-too-much/

The Priest Responds

The priest to whom the lady wrote then answered, “… true devotion to Mary always leads us closer to her Son… But these cases of exaggeration are anomalies [i.e., something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.]” 

I’m a former Catholic, and I don’t know, but from what I’ve seen, this excessive devotion seems to be the norm for many Catholics, especially those in other, mostly-Catholic, countries.

The “Ask-a-Priest” then goes on to quote official Catholic teaching on Mary’s role and how it supposedly does not obscure or diminish the role of Jesus – yet it mentions her “salvific influence.” (Lumen Gentium, No. 60)

The priest goes on to say, “Mary is important only because Jesus is much, much more important.”

But tell that to the millions who bow humbly in prayer to statues of Mary, asking HER for things like salvation, and calling HER “our life, our sweetness, our hope,” etc.  Ask those millions who make pilgrimages every single year to shrines built in Mary’s honor and we can see who is more important to them.

If SHE is much, much less important than Jesus, then why are there so many more shrines in America and all around the world to her, rather than to Jesus?  And why does the Catholic rosary have far more prayers addressed to Mary than prayers to Jesus/God?

The priest continues: “As for the penance you received: Perhaps the priest in his zeal misspoke when he implied that Mary would be the one to forgive you.”

“Misspoke” is a giant understatement.  Don’t you think that priests (who are highly educated) should know better than to suggest such a thing as Mary forgiving sin?  Have not priests taken a solemn vow to be faithful in correctly dispensing penances in the confessional? 

In Catholicism, is the confessional the place to make flippant comments or show misguided zeal?  Surely, Catholics will say no.  So, priests need to quit making excuses for each other!

Furthermore, the priest said, “He [the priest giving penance] was probably just trying to encourage you in your relationship with Mary.” 

Well, that’s the problem!  Too much emphasis on Mary is the very thing that this woman was so concerned about.

Furthermore, he said, “The key thing is not to dismiss entirely the role of Mary simply because some folks might seem to take things to an unhealthy extreme.”

This “Ask-a-Priest” is bending over backward to avoid placing the blame on the Catholic Church who allows such behavior.  But didn’t he just say that it was an “unhealthy extreme,” yet he seems to be ok with it?  Is no one accountable in this?  Is anyone ever rebuked for this idolatry? 

And, I have to add, what exactly is the “role” of Mary in the church?  The Bible appoints no special role to her that is different from any other believer’s role.  Yes, she gave birth to and raised and nurtured the Savior, but there is no exceptional “role” for Mary in the body of Christ, especially in the exalted manner that we often see.  This priest goes on to mention the “scriptural roots” of true Marian devotion.  But there is no such thing!

Again, he said, “You want to be careful, too, because the devil would like to sow seeds of doubt about the Church in you, especially after your journey over the years.”

Yeah, be careful about doubting the Church, but never mind the possibility of idolatry, leading many to Hell… just be obedient to the Magisterium.  It just can’t be the Church’s fault, right?

And finally, “In the meantime stay focused on Jesus in the Eucharist and in Scripture.”

Notice how the priest inserts “in the Eucharist” here.  He is simply jumping from one form of idolatry to another.

Let it be known that the priest in this article never says anything about being careful in your devotion, toning it down, or warning of the likelihood of idolatry.  In fact, have you ever heard of ANYONE who was punished by a pope or other Catholic official for excessive devotion to Mary?  I certainly haven’t.

It seems that devoted Catholics are NEVER rebuked for this.  Therefore, it is a practice that actually ends up being encouraged in the Church.  Authorities may spout the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but I don’t see any negative consequences for this practice.

Defending the Problem

Another source I found is by Catholic apologist Joe Heschmeyer whose article is eloquently written and titled In Defense of Exaggerated Marian Devotion.  You can find it here:

https://shamelesspopery.com/exaggerated-marian-devotion/

Now, just looking at this title should disturb us.  Remember, the Catholic Church “officially” discourages excessive devotion, but from the very outset of his article, Joe Heschmeyer is bent on defending this behavior, instead of actually confronting it.

Joe states that these affectionate prayers and all this special attention given to Mary are “more like love letters to the Virgin Mary than they are like carefully-worded theological treatises.”

Well, no one is expected to act as a theologian when praying, but common sense and the Bible expose what is really happening here.

He also says, “Shouldn’t we be careful not to exaggerate or use over-the-top or flowery language?  No.  There are two reasons for this.  First, it limits the fullness of human emotional expression… Second, rejecting exaggeration thwarts our ability to understand the Bible… because the Bible employs exaggeration.” (Emphasis in original)

This was the thrust of his whole article.  Ok, so let’s look at this.  First, he says we shouldn’t limit “the fullness of human emotional expression” in prayer.  Ok, then would it be ok to add curse words and blasphemous phrases in prayer, as well… you know, since that carries a lot of emotional expression, right?  No sane Catholic would suggest this.  So, of course there should be limitations.  And biblical prayer must indeed be limited, and it is rightly limited to God, alone (Psalm 73:25).  No one should even be praying to Mary at all, much less using such exalted language toward her in prayer.

One must ask, where does all this “freedom of expression” stuff end?  If the fullness of freedom has no limits, then let’s just take it to the next level and “venerate” anyone and everyone!  Better yet, let’s just worship everything!  Of course, that’s silly, but that’s what can happen if you erase proper biblical boundaries.

Secondly, Joe says that we shouldn’t reject exaggeration, since the Bible sometimes uses exaggeration.  Ok, the Bible sometimes employs exaggeration… therefore, we should use extreme measures approaching the worship of Mary?  I’m sorry, but that just does not follow.  Again, what is it that properly limits this exaggeration, if not biblical principles of worship?

Very eloquent article, Joe.  Too bad you’re promoting idolatry and you’ll have to answer for that.  And so will the two priests mentioned above.

“Veneration” in Catholic Countries

I couldn’t find the exact quote, but the late Dave Hunt, who had travelled around the world, once said that the devotion to Mary in the United States was different than in other (mainly Catholic) countries.  He basically said that American Catholics observe a more “politically correct” version, one that is toned down, as opposed to the more freely expressed version of “veneration” in other countries.  In these countries, it often seems that it is simply open and outright worship of Mary.

To further confirm that idea, in another article on the Berean Call website, a questioner stated that Catholics don’t worship Mary.  The host answered, in part:

“… many a Catholic has commented that, ‘Catholics in Mexico (and throughout Latin America), in their devotion to Mary, do things that we would only do when worshipping God.’”

See here:

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/question-what-do-you-mean-mary-worship

Conclusion

As long as the Catholic Church defends (or makes excuses for) its members who practice “excessive devotion,” they will never get rid of this problem – and more and more people will be lost for eternity.

According to Lumen Gentium 51:

“… if any abuses, excesses or defects have crept in here or there, [we urge all concerned] to do what is in their power to remove or correct them…”

I don’t see it happening, folks.  I don’t see it now, nor have I ever seen this happen… and I suspect that it never will.

The faults or excesses of some people are no excuse to leave God or leave Christianity altogether, as the lady in the first article was about to do.  However, when a group/system/religion purposely ignores the wrongdoing of its people and offer no discipline, the leaders of that group are at fault.

So, the bottom line is that the Catholic Church officially looks down on excessive devotion to Mary.  But practically speaking, it seems that they (those “venerating” Mary) can all get away with it.  The pope, as the “Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church” has the power to stop all this at any time.  The problem is, I don’t think he wants to.

I often wonder – what exactly would it take to cause Catholics to see through the false claims and the obvious idolatry within the Catholic Church?  Has the Church so indoctrinated them, that they can no longer recognize truth?

The Bible describes a hardening process by which one suppresses the truth, and his foolish heart is darkened, little by little, until the light that he has been so graciously given dims more and more… and he ends up worshipping the creature, rather than the Creator. (Romans 1:18-25)

It appears that this may be the case in Catholic obsession with Mary and their excessive devotion to her.

 

PRAYING TO SAINTS

When we are going through life’s problems and trials, it is very comforting to have family, friends and neighbors pray with us and for us. God expects us to pray for each other. But we need to ask an important question about prayer. Is it possible to get help from those who are in Heaven, like Mary or the saints / believers who have gone on before us? The Catholic Church teaches the concept of “the Communion of Saints” which includes the idea that you can indeed pray to, and receive help from, certain saints (and even angels) in Heaven. But is this true? Is this scriptural? Let us look deeper into this topic and respond to some of the Catholic arguments for praying to Mary, saints and angels.


CATHOLIC CLAIM – PROTESTANTS DON’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE CATHOLIC CONCEPT OF PRAYER. TO PRAY SIMPLY MEANS “TO ASK” OR “TO BESEECH.” FOR INSTANCE, THE TERM “PRAY TELL” IS SIMPLY AN EXPRESSION THAT SOME WILL USE WHEN ASKING SOMETHING. EVEN IN THE BIBLE, WE SEE THE TERM “I PRAY THEE” WHEN ASKING FOR A FAVOR. SO, WHEN WE PRAY TO MARY OR THE SAINTS, WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING THEM TO PRAY TO GOD ON OUR BEHALF. SO PRAYER IS JUST ASKING.


First, if the word “pray” just means “to ask,” then the words of Jesus, “Ask in prayer” (Matthew 21:22) would simply be redundant.

Using the logic of this Catholic argument, if you “asked” me for any kind of help, wouldn’t you be praying to me? When Jesus “asked” the woman at the well for a drink (John 4:7), was the Son of God praying to her? Or, when Jesus “asked” His disciples for something to eat (Luke 24:41), was He praying to them? Of course not. That would be absurd.

Second, although asking is one component of prayer, Catholics should be well aware that the biblical concept of prayer cannot be reduced to merely asking, since prayer can include praise, thanksgiving, meditation, etc.

Third, the language involved in some of the common prayers to the saints certainly seems to be more than just “asking for prayer.” A brief search on the internet will reveal that much of the language used in praying to the saints seems to contain excessive devotion, and oftentimes appears to be asking the saint himself / herself to fill the need (instead of God), especially some of the prayers directed to Mary. After reading a number of these, it would become easy to completely miss the idea that one is simply “asking them to pray.”

Finally, we must remember that the Catholic Church teaches that there are three different levels of honor when a Catholic prays (which we will discuss further in just a minute). Each level carries with it a corresponding and increasing attitude of honor. To keep things simple for now, there is “praying with ‘little’ honor”, “praying with ‘bigger’ honor,” and “praying with ‘greatest’ honor.” All three are “asking,” but is all their asking, at each individual level, the same? If it is, then how is one level different from another? If “pray” only means ask, then having these different levels of honor is meaningless. The simple fact that Catholics recognize different levels of prayer destroys this silly notion that “pray just means ask.”

To be fair, I don’t know of any official Catholic sources that make this argument (I don’t think that they do), but let’s hope that the many Catholic apologists who do use this faulty “pray just means ask” argument would be more honest and stop using it.


CATHOLIC CLAIM – WHEN ADDRESSING MARY OR THE SAINTS, WE’RE NOT REALLY PRAYING *TO* THEM, WE’RE JUST ASKING THEM TO PRAY *FOR* US.

But note these statements from official Catholic sources:

Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray TO her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and TO her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, CCC #2679 – Emphasis added)

One prays TO the Blessed Virgin, TO the angels and saints in heaven, but only in the sense that they may intercede before God for us. (New Catholic Encyclopedia [1967], Volume 11, page 673 –Emphasis added)

…the saints intercede for us in virtue of His merits, not their own. Consequently when we pray TO them, it is to ask for their intercession in our behalf, not to expect that they can bestow gifts on us of their own power, or obtain them in virtue of their own merit. (New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, online, under the topic “Prayer” – Emphasis added)

Let all the children of the Catholic Church… continue to venerate, invoke and pray TO the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God… (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, Apostolic Constitution, December 8, 1854 - Emphasis added)

It is clear from these sources that Catholics can and do, indeed, pray TO Mary and the saints. In fact, the Church encourages it. To deny this is simply playing word games and ignoring official teaching. So, Catholics need to stop repeating this falsehood, also.

Ok, at this point many Catholics will say, “But our prayer to them is a ‘lesser’ type of prayer than what is offered to God”… which leads us to the next Catholic claim:

CATHOLIC CLAIM – YOU ARE CONFUSING PRAYER WITH WORSHIP. PROTESTANTS ARE UNABLE OR UNWILLING TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE TYPES OF HONOR WE GIVE TO SAINTS, MARY, AND TO GOD. PRAYER TO THE SAINTS IS CALLED “DULIA.” PRAYER TO MARY IS ON A HIGHER LEVEL AND IS KNOWN AS “HYPERDULIA.” BUT WHEN WE PRAY TO GOD, WE USE “LATRIA,” THE HIGHEST FORM OF HONOR (i.e., WORSHIP). WE DO NOT *WORSHIP* MARY OR THE SAINTS, BUT ONLY GOD.

In the Bible, prayer is always an act of WORSHIP. All throughout Scripture, people worshipped through prayer and their prayers were always directed to God. We find not one single case of anyone in the Bible praying (with God’s approval) to anyone other than God. No angels, saints, elders, patriarchs, prophets, kings… no one. These may have been honored, but never were they prayed to. It is ok to give honor to whom honor is due (Romans 13:7), but praying to someone (dead or alive) is beyond honor; it is worship. In spite of Catholic claims to the contrary, prayer to saints is NOT the same as just asking a friend to pray for you. It is idolatry.

The Jews were God’s chosen people in the Old Testament, yet they continually fell into idolatry. What makes anyone think today that they can, while praying, easily distinguish between these three forms of “honor” (dulia, hyperdulia, latria) and move from one to the other without falling into the same problem that the Old Testament Jews did? Even in the case of Moses’ brazen serpent (which God had him erect for the people), we find that the honor that was first directed toward the statue turned into something more. It was later destroyed because it had become an idol to which the people burned incense. (2 Kings 18:4)

And just for the record, the Catholic Church admits that “dulia” and “hyperdulia” are forms of worship. (See the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, under “Beatification and Canonization”)

CATHOLIC CLAIM – IF ALL WORSHIP MUST BE DIRECTED TO GOD ALONE, THEN WHAT ABOUT THE STATEMENT THAT SPOUSES MAKE TO EACH OTHER IN THE ANGLICAN WEDDING CEREMONY: “WITH MY BODY, I THEE WORSHIP”? (CHARLES AND DIANA REPORTEDLY USED THIS FORM IN THEIR WEDDING.) ALSO, IN THE UK, JUDGES ARE GIVEN WORSHIP AND ARE EVEN ADDRESSED, “MY WORSHIP.”

But we need to realize that the biblical concept of worship is not based on Anglican wedding vows or British courtroom practices. The biblical concept is that prayer is recognized as worship and is clearly illustrated by multiple examples of praying only to God.


ASSUMPTIONS

There are some basic underlying assumptions here with the concept of praying to saints:

1) That these saints which are being prayed to are actually in Heaven
2) That they can actually hear us when we pray
3) That they can actually do something about our situation (offer aid or intercession for us)

Concerning #1 above, how does one know with certainty if the person to whom they are praying is actually in Heaven? Suppose this “saint” is actually in Hell and therefore an enemy of God? Is it acceptable to pray to God’s enemies? Suppose that there was hidden “mortal sin” in this “saint’s” life that only God knew about? If this is indeed the case, then there are some serious repercussions. Remember, the Lord God is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5).

Concerning #2 and #3, maybe God allows all the saints to hear our prayers. Maybe only some of them can hear us, or maybe He allows none of them to hear us. We just don’t know. It would be speculation. Saints hearing prayer is simply an assumption for Catholics, and there is no clear biblical proof for it. Nor is there any biblical reason to believe that even if they could hear us, that they could do anything about it anyway.

CATHOLIC CLAIM – BUT THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ARE NOT DEAD; THEY ARE MORE ALIVE AND RIGHTEOUS THAN ANY OF US HERE ON EARTH. AND SURELY, WITH THEIR EXALTED STATUS, GOD GIVES THEM SPECIAL POWER TO INTERCEDE FOR US. DON’T YOU THINK IT’S POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO GRANT THIS SPECIAL ABILITY? WHY DO YOU PROTESTANTS LIMIT GOD?

Yes, it’s possible, but “possible” does not make it true. It is also “possible” that God made the moon out of green cheese, but that doesn’t mean that He has. Of course, God is able to grant them “special powers,” but God’s ability is not the issue. The question is not, “What can God do?” It’s “What did God do?” Restricting our prayer life to the multitude of examples in Scripture (where prayer to saints is never found) is not “limiting” God.


But is it Biblical?

CATHOLIC CLAIM – PRAYING TO SAINTS IS INDEED A BIBLICAL PRACTICE. REVELATION 5:8 SAYS, “AND WHEN HE HAD TAKEN THE BOOK, THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES AND THE TWENTY-FOUR ELDERS FELL DOWN BEFORE THE LAMB, HAVING EACH ONE A HARP, AND GOLDEN BOWLS FULL OF INCENSE, WHICH ARE THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS.” (SEE ALSO REVELATION 8:3-4) IF THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ARE OFFERING OUR PRAYERS TO GOD, THEN THEY MUST ALSO BE AWARE OF OUR PRAYERS AND ARE INTERCEDING FOR US.

Again, this conclusion is pure speculation. This does not mean that the saints (on earth) prayed to them, or that the saints in Heaven could even hear their prayers; it just means that God allowed them to “handle” the bowls of prayers. This says absolutely nothing about us being free to pray to Mary, angels, or to saints in Heaven. It never suggests that the prayers were ever directed to them.

According to Catholic logic, since the prayers in the bowls of Revelation 5:8 and 8:3-4 were (supposedly) directed to the beings who carried them, then the WRATH in the bowls of Revelation 16:1-12 must have ALSO been directed to the angels who carried those. But I don’t think that anyone would agree with this conclusion. So, this Catholic argument is another one that fails.

We see no reason to believe that there is anyone in Heaven to whom prayer is directed but God. Look what Psalm 73:25 says: "Whom have I in heaven BUT THEE? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee." In Scripture, we are never encouraged to pray to anyone in Heaven, except God. Not to saints, not to Mary, not to angels. There are hundreds of verses on prayer in the Bible, but there are absolutely none where a believer prays to anyone other than God. We are never told that heavenly saints intercede for us by their prayers. But we are told that Jesus Christ intercedes for us (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).

CATHOLIC CLAIM – ANOTHER VERSE IS PSALM 103:20-21, “BLESS THE LORD, YOU HIS ANGELS, MIGHTY IN STRENGTH, WHO PERFORM HIS WORD, OBEYING THE VOICE OF HIS WORD! BLESS THE LORD, ALL YOU HIS HOSTS, YOU WHO SERVE HIM DOING HIS WILL.” (SEE ALSO PSALM 148:2) THIS IS A CLEAR INDICATION THAT THE BIBLE DIRECTS US TO PRAY TO HIS ANGELS.

These verses are not directing us to pray to the angels, but the psalmist is just using a rhetorical device to exhort all (including the Heavenly hosts) to praise and exalt God, because He is worthy. Note the next verse (103:22), which encourages His "works" (not just living creatures) to also praise Him. Does that mean that we pray to all His "works" also? What about when people (on earth) are admonished to praise Him? Are we praying to those people?” Psalm 148:3 is telling the sun, moon and stars to praise Him, also. But no one is expected to pray to these.

CATHOLIC CLAIM – BUT HEBREWS 12:1 TELLS US OF THE “GREAT CLOUD OF WITNESSES” FROM HEAVEN THAT SURROUNDS US. THESE ARE THE SAINTS WHO ARE PRAYING FOR US. ALSO, IN VERSES 22-24, THE WRITER OF HEBREWS IS TELLING US TO NOT ONLY COME TO JESUS AND TO GOD, BUT ALSO TO ANGELS, TO THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN AND TO THE SPIRITS OF RIGHTEOUS MEN MADE PERFECT (i.e., THE SAINTS). SO, GOD EXPECTS US TO DIRECT OUR PRAYER TO ALL OF THESE.

Let’s first look at the verses mentioned:

Hebrews 12:1 - Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.

Hebrews 12:22-24 - But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Concerning Hebrews 12:1, this verse is a continuation of the previous chapter, and the context is not so much about the saints in Heaven “observing” our lives on earth as it is of their being “examples” to us on earth – they made it through in spite of persecutions, and we are encouraged to do the same, e.g., “let us run with endurance…”

It is true that the angels and saints in Heaven may be aware of some things here on earth, but if this passage really is about us praying to saints this would be a great time to mention their “intercession.” But we don’t see anything here about asking those saints for prayer, or anything about Noah (11:7) or Rahab (11:31) wanting to intercede for us. Once again, I am not aware of any Catholic who prays to any of these heroes of faith listed in chapter 11. So why do Catholics insist that this passage proves the concept of prayer to saints if they never pray to these?

Concerning Hebrews 12:22-24, and our “coming to” Jesus and the saints in prayer, this passage is speaking of our entering into the new and better covenant. It is not permitting us to pray to angels and saints. If you take this to its logical conclusion, then we should also ask the “Heavenly Jerusalem,” “Mount Zion” and the “sprinkled blood” for prayer, also. If we “come to” all of these equally in the sense you’re suggesting, then they should all be prayed to. Catholics take this totally out of context, since they are equating “come to” with “pray to.” But this is not the case. Once again, there is nothing here about prayer to, or intercession from, saints and angels.

CATHOLIC CLAIM – BUT WE HAVE EXAMPLES IN THE BIBLE OF THOSE WHO SPOKE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE ON BEFORE US TO HEAVEN. FOR INSTANCE, WHEN JESUS WAS UP ON THE MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION (MATTHEW 17:3), HE SPOKE TO MOSES AND ELIJAH. AREN’T WE TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE?

First of all, this was a special and unique event. The lesson here is not that Jesus was giving them permission to pray to saints in Heaven. To the Jews, Moses and Elijah represent the Law and the Prophets. This event was simply to validate the ministry of Jesus in the eyes of the apostles. But as soon as Peter began to show an unhealthy interest in Moses and Elijah, they were taken away. There was no encouragement to “contact saints.” In fact there was nothing at all about prayer in this context.

Secondly, it is interesting to note that Catholics will use this argument in attempting to prove prayer to saints is ok, but (once again) I have never heard of any Catholic who actually prays to either Moses or Elijah.

By the way, when Peter asked to build tabernacles for Moses and Elijah, Jesus didn’t say, “Well, it’s ok, but only if you honor them with ‘dulia’.” No, there were no tabernacles intended for these great men of God, nor were prayers intended for them… the same goes for all saints.

CATHOLIC CLAIM – BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE PRAYERS TO THE SAINTS THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN ANSWERED? SURELY, THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. THESE PRAYERS ARE EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ARE FAR MORE RIGHTEOUS THAN WE ARE.

Let’s assume that these prayers that were directed to saints have indeed been answered. Maybe (because of God’s grace) the prayer was answered in spite of your unbiblical prayer, rather than because of it. And of course, there is the possibility that it’s because others were praying directly to God for the same thing about the same time that you were praying to your saints.

Or perhaps, this “answered prayer” is just a deception of the enemy, specifically manifested to mislead people. If a teaching is false and unbiblical, yet seems to be "verified" by a miracle, then we must reject that miracle as evidence for that teaching. It is just like the sorcerers in Exodus 7:11, who produced a "miracle" similar to Aaron's rod turning into a serpent. Should we believe that these magicians were also from God just because they showed “signs and wonders?” They MUST have been from God, since they were able to duplicate Aaron’s miracle, right? No, not at all. Their “message” was not from God. The enemy can (to some extent, at least) duplicate (or counterfeit) miracles to deceive God's people. The Bible speaks of lying signs and wonders in the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12), in order to deceive many. These “miracles” from the saints would fit in that very category.

We also see the unfortunate fate of the “prophet” in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, whose message does not line up with God’s commandments, even though he is exhibiting “signs and wonders.” Remember, you can’t depend on a “miracle” that confirms an UNBIBLICAL teaching.


How Does a Person Become Recognized as a “Saint”?

The Catholic Church teaches that a person today can only receive “sainthood” after his death. For the Church to recognize someone as a saint, his life must have been marked by “heroic virtue.” Furthermore, there must be (generally) at least two verified miracles attributed to him, “proving” that the saint has the power to intercede for those praying to him.

His life must be investigated by the Church and he must first go through the process of “beatification” and finally the process of “canonization.” Once he has been canonized, he is officially recognized by the Church as a “saint,” and the faithful are assured that he is in Heaven. Faithful Catholics can now pray to him publicly. By the way, many Catholics are not aware that all faithful Catholics are obligated to pray to “canonized” saints. The Church does not just encourage it, but commands public veneration for them. (See the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, under “Beatification and Canonization”)

Note this official statement concerning whom Catholics are allowed to pray to:

It is permitted to reverence through public veneration only those servants of God whom the authority of the Church has recorded in the list of the saints or the blessed. (Code of Canon Law, Canon 1187)

In other words, only those saints who are declared saints by the Church are the ones to whom Catholics can pray publicly. Catholics are forbidden to give public veneration / honor to anyone who is not beatified or canonized as a saint.

But this question begs to be asked: For the Catholic, are there limits to private prayer to those believed to be in Heaven? As for as I can tell, there are no official Catholic sources that limit the number of people to whom the Catholic can pray in private. They seem to be free to pray to Uncle Harry or to Aunt Susie, or anyone whom they feel has led a holy life.

But what if Uncle Harry is NOT in Heaven? The Catholic has no certainty of this, since Uncle Harry is not on the official “list of saints.” Suppose he is in Hell. Does the Catholic Church allow prayer to someone in Hell? At this point, it doesn’t matter if one’s prayer is public or private! Would not the individual be guilty of praying to an enemy of God? Can the person praying simply plead ignorance and still be innocent? Is the Church responsible for giving Catholics too much liberty in private prayer? It would appear so. But the Catholic Church seems to be more concerned about canonizing saints than it is about warning its members against idolatry.


Excessive Devotion

Many Catholics are aware of, and admit to, certain abuses and “excessive devotion” to saints by some members of the Church (especially in “majority Catholic” countries), and the Church would agree that this is wrong. The pope has the authority and the responsibility to deal with these problems, but never seems to really address it. If excessive devotion really is a problem (and it is), then why does he allow such “devotion” to continue? Why does he not set an example and openly rebuke those who, even by Catholic standards, engage in idolatry? This lack of concern will only increase the level of sinful, idolatrous practices in the Catholic Church. It is our prayer that everyone would see the danger involved in praying to anyone but the Living God.

The Bible’s company of saints is not restricted to the group that the Catholic Church calls “saints.” The Bible calls all true believers saints (e.g., Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1)… not just some special group in Heaven.