Monday, November 3, 2014

RE-DEFINING JUSTIFICATION



I see it happen all the time.  A Catholic and a Protestant will be discussing salvation, and the Protestant points out that the Catholic Church teaches that a person is saved by his faith plus his works.  But immediately, the Catholic will say, “Oh no!  We don’t teach that.  Salvation is not by works.  The Council of Trent teaches that justification is unmerited and not obtained by works of any kind (Session 6, chapter 8).”  But when the Protestant points to other sections of Trent (Session 6, chapters 10 and 16) to show that the Catholic Church does indeed believe in works for salvation, then they will start to back-track and point to certain Bible verses in an attempt to claim that believers really are saved by works.  They do a flip-flop.  What they first denied, they later try to vigorously defend.  You see, what the Catholic Church teaches is often confusing, even for Catholics. 

Much of the confusion seems to come from the fact that the Catholic Church believes that justification is split into two different categories:  “initial” justification and “ongoing” or “progressive” justification.  They believe that in the initial phase there are no works that merit salvation.  And, supposedly, this initial justification is achieved by water baptism (which, ironically, is a work).  But afterward, in the progressive phase, salvation is (according to them) indeed merited / earned by good works.  So, they believe a person can be justified at one point and then re-justified (or “more justified”) later.  But the fact is, they are confusing justification with sanctification, which involves the Christian’s growth process.  “Sanctification” means to be set apart for God’s use, and it is a process in which we are gradually conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 9:13-14).  Good works are part of this process, but they are done out of thankfulness for what God has done for us, never to merit salvation.

But according to the Bible, there is no such thing as “initial” or “progressive” justification.  Biblical justification refers to a judicial sentence or decision, as in a courtroom.  It is a term having strong legal overtones, and is used together with words like “impute” (Romans 4:8), “reckoned” (Romans 4:4, 9-10), and “counted" (Romans 4:3, 5).  Justification means to declare someone righteous.  It is a proclamation of one’s status by the Judge (God).  There is nothing “progressive” about such a decision.  It is a one-time proclamation.  So, there is no such thing as an “increase” of justification.   You can’t be “a little justified” or “partially justified.”  According to the Bible, you’re either justified or you’re not.
  
The righteousness we have, as Christians, is based on the righteousness of the Savior, Jesus Christ, and His perfect work.  Any type of righteousness that would involve some sort of “progressive justification” is based, to some extent, on the righteousness of the believer and his works.  But that would be an imperfect righteousness.  And that’s exactly the type of justification that the Catholic Church offers to its members.


In fact, Catholic teaching on salvation falls into the same error as that of the Judaizers.  See this article:




It seems that the Catholic Church’s redefining of justification has been subtle enough to confuse and deceive certain Protestants, as well.  Note, for example, the famous ECT documents (Evangelicals and Catholics Together), where some Protestants have joined with Catholics to promote “unity” and to stand together against certain evils in the world.  They even appear to now agree on justification, as well.  This may sound like a good thing.  But does this mean that the Reformation was all just one big misunderstanding, and that we should all hold hands and agree now?  Then why were there martyrs back then on both sides?  Did they all die for nothing?  Was it over a mere misunderstanding?  Hardly.  The differences between Protestants and Catholics were real back then, and they always have been.  What was error then, is still error now.  The ECT signers, in their quest for “common ground,” have come to an agreement on an unbiblical view of justification / salvation.


Conclusion


The apostle Paul was not so subtle in his view on salvation.  He says, “Are you so foolish?  having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?”  (Galatians 3:3)  Notice that Paul equates attempting to add works to the cross with living “by the flesh.”


My friends, out of all the Bible writers, it is Paul who deals with the concept of justification in the most detail (mainly Romans chapters 3-5 and the book of Galatians).  But he never tells us of a split justification like the Catholic Church teaches.  He uses no examples of “initial” or “progressive” justification in Scripture.  He offers no explanations or descriptions of this type of justification anywhere in his writings.  There is not even a brief mention of such a concept.


But on the other hand, Paul does tell us over and over that justification / salvation is obtained by faith and NOT by works (Romans 3:28; 4:2-6, 9-10; Galatians 2:16; 3:1-3; 3:11).  A man is saved by the grace of God through faith (i.e., trusting) in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross, and nothing else.  There is no list of good works, no sacraments, and no formulas that can be added to His sufficient work.  That is the simplicity of the true gospel.  But unfortunately, the Catholic view of justification is another gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4).


37 comments:

  1. A person is justified when he first believes; when he comes to the realization that he is a sinner who is spiritually bankrupt and is on his way to Hell. It is when he humbly surrenders his life to God, and he begins to trust in the Person of Jesus Christ and in His work on the cross in order to make it to Heaven. This is the moment that God changes the person’s heart and his desires, and He gives him a new life. This is the moment that he is “born again.”

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  2. Thanks for the answer Russell.

    You said, "A person is justified when he first believes; "

    When did this happen to Abraham? When Scripture says:

    Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    We can trace that Scripture to the story of Abraham in the Old Testament. It first happened in Gen. 12. This is when God called Abraham:

    Genesis 12 King James Version (KJV)

    1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

    This is when St. Paul says that Abraham first believed and began acting in faith.

    So, this is when Abraham was justified, is this correct?

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  3. De Maria,

    I would say that we don’t have much (if any) background details on Abraham prior to Genesis chapter 12, but yes, this is probably where Abraham (Abram) is justified.

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  4. Thanks Russell. Well, at least you're consistent. Because most Protestants say that he was justified in Gen 15 when Scripture says:

    Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

    Because St. Paul says:

    Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    You see how Rom 4:3 is a reference to Gen 15:6?

    And there's another opinion in Scripture also. Because St. James says that Abraham was justified in Gen 22 when the Angel ofGod says:

    Gen 22:11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

    St. James explains it this way:
    James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    In either case, what I see confirmed in Scripture is the Catholic Doctrine of the PROCESS of Justification and not the Protestant claim of a once saved always saved proclamation of faith alone.

    Thanks for indulging me, Russell. Good talking to you again. I miss our long conversations on my blog.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria

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  5. You have not at all demonstrated that justification IS A PROCESS. Once again, Genesis 12 (we both agree) is the moment of Abraham’s justification / salvation. Genesis 15:6 is simply where God reminds Abraham of the promise He gave him back in Genesis 12. Genesis 15 is not the actual point of Abraham’s justification (as you may agree), since the promise is simply being re-stated there, and God is reminding Abraham that the promise (of his descendants) will come by trusting God (faith), and not by Abraham’s ability.

    The justification spoken of in James chapter 2 involves the proof or demonstration of a person’s justification (or salvation), which is evidenced by good works. The context makes this crystal clear. Justification is used here in the sense of VINDICATION (as it is in Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:29, 10:29, and 16:15), not in the sense of salvation. The context of James 2 is not about “how a man is made right with God,” as is the context in Romans (chapters 3-5) and Galatians.

    See also this article:

    http://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2010/01/faith-alone-part-2.html#comment-form

    So, there is no process, and there are no multiple points of justification, as you asserted.

    By the way, I don’t hold to the “once saved, always saved” doctrine that you mentioned. There are way too many warnings in Scripture to the saints, AND even to leaders in the church, to “be on your guard,” “be watchful,” “making shipwreck of the faith,” warnings against apostasy, “falling away,” “falling from grace,” being “severed from Christ,” etc., etc.

    Not everyone who believes in “sola fide” (faith alone) believes in “once saved, always saved.”

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  6. I'll let the reader decide, Russell. St. James said,

    James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    That doesn't need any interpretation.

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    Replies
    1. Hello De Maria,

      You are indeed very good at reading things out of context.James 2:24 does not argue against salvation by faith alone. Rather, it argues against a salvation that is alone, a salvation devoid of good works and obedience to God’s Word. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." James’s point is that we demonstrate our faith by what we do (James 2:18). Regardless of the absence of the precise phrase “faith alone,” the New Testament definitely teaches that salvation is the product of God’s grace in response to our faith. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

      Why are you so desperate to attack the wonderful articles published by Russell?

      Jesse



      Delete
    2. nonymousDecember 26, 2014 at 10:32 PM
      Hello De Maria,

      You are indeed very good at reading things out of context.


      I beg to differ.

      James 2:24 does not argue against salvation by faith alone.

      Let's see what James 2:24 says:

      James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

      Rather, it argues against a salvation that is alone, a salvation devoid of good works and obedience to God’s Word. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." James’s point is that we demonstrate our faith by what we do (James 2:18).

      That is the Catholic Doctrine.

      Regardless of the absence of the precise phrase “faith alone,”

      There is no absence of that phrase. St. James is clear. Above, I used the KJV, here, I'll use the NIV.

      James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.


      the New Testament definitely teaches that salvation is the product of God’s grace in response to our faith. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

      That is a reference to the Sacraments. In the Sacraments, we are justified according to our faith, apart from works. This is why Catholics are said to be the descendants of Abraham. It is in the Sacraments, that God, seeing our faith, counts it to us as righteousness and pours His saving grace into our hearts.

      Unless you know the Traditions of the Catholic Church which are the underpinning of the New Testament, you won't understand St. Paul.

      Why are you so desperate to attack the wonderful articles published by Russell?

      Why do you characterize me as desperate and my comments as an attack. I happen to believe that Russell is a sincere Christian and I love talking to him. But I believe he is sincerely in error and I want to point him to the Scriptures which show his errors.

      Sincerely,

      De Maria

      Delete
  7. Hello De Maria,

    You Said, " I beg to differ."
    Of coarse you would. You are a Roman Catholic.

    You said, "That is a Catholic doctrine."
    False. We all believe in the same doctrine. you are the one who thinks we are saved by WORKS! Your point being is?

    Again, James does not argue against salvation by faith alone...

    Romans 4:5 cannot simply be a reference to sacraments because the idea of the seven sacraments is totally unbiblical and the belief arose long after the New Testament was written. See Gotguestions.org "What is the origin of the Catholic church?" We do NOT have to work our rears off! James is talking about being a good person...Catholics are not descendants of Abraham.... So, you are saying that a church that murdered several million Christians, burned numerous Bibles and condemned reading them, and controlled the world for centuries is entitled to being descendants of a very holy man? Not by chance! You Romanists are descendants of King Caesar and ancient Babylon. Many Catholic practices are similar to ancient Babylon. Roman Catholics are descendants of Rome; not Israel. You are nothing to do with the Jews! Catholics did not even exist in the New Testament. The key word is "Rome". Your church began in Rome with Constantine and the Edict of Milan in 313 AD... Quit your illogical rants.

    The traditions of the Church are CONTRARY to the New Testament.... They also arose long after the Bible was completed.... Give it up De Maria, my grandfather is not a liar about the Scriptures. He is a very old man and he has been a pastor ALL OF HIS LIFE!!!!! He knows more about church history than you do and knows the ENTIRE Bible!

    I characterize you as desperate because deep inside you know that the burden of proof rests on your back and there is nothing you can do about it. You can only dream and twist the Scriptures to your own destruction! If Russell was at all misinterpreting the Scriptures, he would have never posted this article..... Why do you care? Show us our errors. Where exactly did Russell make a mistake on this page? You are only complaining because you do not like what he wrote!


    Jesse



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    1. Hello Jesse,

      >>>Hello De Maria,

      False. We all believe in the same doctrine. you are the one who thinks we are saved by WORKS! Your point being is?<<<

      On the contrary, Scripture is clear we are saved by faith AND works. As the Scripture plainly says:

      James 2:24

      20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

      >>>Again, James does not argue against salvation by faith alone...<<<

      Yes, he does. Scripture Scripture says, PLAINLY.

      James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

      >>>Romans 4:5 cannot simply be a reference to sacraments because the idea of the seven sacraments is totally unbiblical<<<<

      The word, "sacraments" was not yet coined, but the seven Sacraments are the underlying reality of the New Testament. They are what the Scripture refers to as the Faith of Jesus Christ.

      Cont'd

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    2. Hello Jesse cont'd,

      >>>>and the belief arose long after the New Testament was written.<<<

      On the contrary, the Seven Sacraments are described in the Scripture:

      Baptism, Mark 16:16
      Confirmation, Acts 19:6
      Eucharist, 1 Cor 10:16
      Confession, 2 Cor 5:18-20
      Matrimony, Matt 19:6
      Anointing the Sick, James 5:15
      Ordination, 1 Tim 4:14

      >>>See Gotguestions.org "What is the origin of the Catholic church?" We do NOT have to work our rears off! <<<<

      I follow Scripture:

      Philippians 2:12
      Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

      >>>>James is talking about being a good person...<<<

      Yes, he is. He is talking about being a good and righteous person who keeps the Commandments of God:

      Matthew 7:21 (AKJV)

      21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

      >>>>Catholics are not descendants of Abraham.... <<<<

      Catholics are the descendants of Abraham. We exhibit the faith of Abraham when we submit to the Sacraments of Jesus Christ, believing His promises that we will be saved:

      Hebrews 5:9
      and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

      >>>>So, you are saying that a church that murdered several million Christians, burned numerous Bibles and condemned reading them, .... The key word is "Rome". Your church began in Rome with Constantine and the Edict of Milan in 313 AD... <<<

      How quickly you abandon Scripture and accept the lies that the enemies of Christ make up to attack His Body.

      cont'd

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    3. Hello Jesse cont'd again,

      >>> Quit your illogical rants.<<<

      I'm not the one ranting. I'm proving to you, the Teachings of the Catholic Church, in Scripture.

      >>>The traditions of the Church are CONTRARY to the New Testament.... <<<

      Not one. The traditions of the Protestants contradict Scripture. Let me show you:

      Protestants cry out, "By Scripture alone!" Scripture says:

      Hebrews 13:7 AKJV

      7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

      Protestants boast, "I'm saved by my faith alone!" Scripture says:

      1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

      Protestants say, "Once Saved Always Saved!" Scirpture says:

      1 Corinthians 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

      >>>They also arose long after the Bible was completed.... Give it up De Maria, my grandfather is not a liar about the Scriptures. He is a very old man and he has been a pastor ALL OF HIS LIFE!!!!! He knows more about church history than you do and knows the ENTIRE Bible! <<<

      Is Russel your grandfather? That is wonderful for you. Imitate his faith. But, question his doctrines. Keep seeking. Perhaps, you will be the one to lead your grandfather back to the Catholic faith and help to make both your elections sure:

      James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

      >>>I characterize you as desperate because deep inside you know that the burden of proof rests on your back <<<

      I accepted the burden and showed you Catholic Doctrine from Scripture. Now, you need to accept the burden of providing evidence for the Protestant doctrines from Scripture.

      You are, at this point, following the usual Protestant model, of thinking that, simply because you reject it, you must be right. However, for every Catholic Doctrine that you reject, there is a Protestant doctrine that you accept.

      What you will find, if we continue this exercise, is that every Catholic Doctrine is in Scripture, explicit or implied. And every Protestant doctrine which contradicts the Catholic Church, is absent from Scripture. It is not there, neither explicit nor implied.

      >>>and there is nothing you can do about it. <<<

      Lol. I can see now that you are a very young person. Get your grandpa on the computer so that we can have a mature discussion.

      >>>You can only dream and twist the Scriptures to your own destruction! If Russell was at all misinterpreting the Scriptures, he would have never posted this article..... Why do you care?<<<

      Because I care about the word of God and I want people to find the Truth. As the saying goes, "I'm just another beggar pointing to the Bread".

      >>>Show us our errors.<<<

      I've done so.

      >>> Where exactly did Russell make a mistake on this page? You are only complaining because you do not like what he wrote!<<<

      Read my posts above. You'll find there what you've asked for.

      Delete
  8. Nice responses Jesse! Way to give that annoying Catholic apologist a powerful blow.

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  9. Faith without works is dead
    Faith minus works is dead
    Faith minus works is zero.

    Can the dead faith save you?

    James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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    1. Perfect,

      The Reformation doctrine of Sola Fide does not emphasize a dead faith in Christ as being the means of salvation. But rather, a true saving faith will always produce works as a result of salvation. We cannot merit our salvation by works of righteousness, you semi-pelagian (John 3:16; Romans 4:2-8; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5-7; Hebrews 10:10-18). The point behind James chapter 2:14-26 is that we demonstrate the reality of our faith by our good deeds. Furthermore, this message is proclaimed throughout Scripture (Matthew 7:15-20; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18).

      To be honest with you, Mug, the argument you mentioned is absolutely tired and over-used.

      Delete
    2. Perfect,

      The Reformation doctrine of Sola Fide does not emphasize a dead faith in Christ as being the means of salvation.


      Ok.

      But rather, a true saving faith will always produce works as a result of salvation.

      Who decides that your faith is a saving faith? Who decides that your faith has produced works meet for repentance?

      We cannot merit our salvation by works of righteousness,

      Then why is it, that only those who do good works, are saved?

      you semi-pelagian (John 3:16; Romans 4:2-8; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5-7; Hebrews 10:10-18).

      It is the Catholic Church which condemned the heresy of semi-pelatgianism.

      The point behind James chapter 2:14-26 is that we demonstrate the reality of our faith by our good deeds.

      What is the point of Hebrews 11:8?

      By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

      This occured in Genesis 12. But Abraham was not saved at that point. Why? Was his faith not enough?

      Furthermore, this message is proclaimed throughout Scripture (Matthew 7:15-20; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18).

      No, it isn't.

      Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

      Delete
  10. Hello Russell,

    I am currently reading through the Old Testament Book of Isaiah and have stumbled past some pretty interesting passages. In summary, the Book is about God's condemnation of sins such as idolatry, His praise of righteousness, and His plans to redeem mankind and protect His chosen nation, Israel.

    I am wondering what your thoughts are on Isaiah 1:18, 43:22-28, 44:22, and 55:1. Would you use these Scripture references as support for the doctrine of Sola Fide? Would they support the notion of God declaring us righteous, rather than the Catholic concept of infusion?

    Thanks

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    1. Would they support the notion of God declaring us righteous, rather than the Catholic concept of infusion?

      You're confused.

      It is the Catholic Church that Teaches that God judges a man righteous. It is Protestants who claim that they can declare themselves so, by faith alone.

      Delete
  11. Hello again Jessie,

    These verses are indeed about redemption, but they are not really verses that I would use to demonstrate “Sola Fide.” If any of these came close, I’d lean more toward Isaiah 55:1, since it speaks of coming to God “without money” and “without price.” This points to our spiritual bankruptcy, our inability to merit salvation from God, and it points to our need of humility.

    If we’re trying to defend “Sola Fide,” we need to use verses that emphasize the “Sola” part of “Sola Fide,” or verses that point away from works of merit. Remember, it is “faith ALONE.”

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi De Maria,
    (Part 1)

    Who decides that your faith is a saving faith? Who decides that your faith has produced works meet for repentance?"

    God decides who has a saving faith, for He is the One who has provided us with a universal standard to abide by. We simply choose our eternal destiny. But discerning truth from error and recognizing that a person is in need of a Savior is entirely different than determining whether he or she is worthy of salvation (nobody really is). Using your logic, we must ask why we try to witness to other people.

    "Then why is it, that only those who do good works, are saved?"

    On the contrary, many people are doing good works and will not be saved (Matthew 7:21-23). Good works do not save you, but rather, they are the evidence of a genuine faith and determine the rewards we receive in heaven (1 Corinthians 3:10-15). This can only be done if we humbly submit ourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ and accept what He has done for us with gratitude.

    "It is the Catholic Church which condemned the heresy of semi-pelagianism."

    The Pelagian heresy basically taught that mankind was not really tainted by the Fall and that it is possible to earn salvation without divine intervention. Since Catholicism affirms that Original Sin had an impact on man and the need of a Redeemer, it gets the title "semi-pelagian" for teaching that we can merit salvation by works.



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    1. (Part 1)

      God decides who has a saving faith, ....


      Then why do Protestants decide for themselves that they are saved by their faith alone? How does that attitude not contradict this verse?

      1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
      3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

      On the contrary, many people are doing good works and will not be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

      Read it again. Ask yourself this question. Who claimed to have done good works? Did God agree with them?

      Good works do not save you, but rather, they are the evidence of a genuine faith and determine the rewards we receive in heaven (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).

      That is true. But they also determine whether we are worthy of salvation:

      Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

      This can only be done if we humbly submit ourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ and accept what He has done for us with gratitude.

      Amen! And imitate Him.

      1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

      And give thanks by offering the Eucharistic sacrifice:

      1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

      The Pelagian heresy basically taught that mankind was not really tainted by the Fall and that it is possible to earn salvation without divine intervention. Since Catholicism affirms that Original Sin had an impact on man and the need of a Redeemer, it gets the title "semi-pelagian"

      Wrong. Read your history. The Catholic Church condemned both pelagianism and semi-pelagianism.

      for teaching that we can merit salvation by works.

      Scripture teaches this. Because Scripture is a Catholic Book. That is why it's inerrant. Because the Catholic Church, is infallible.

      Delete
  13. De Maria,
    (Part 2)

    "What is the point of Hebrews 11:8?"

    Why do you refer me to Hebrews 11? What is your point? I don't get it. All that I know is that this context places a major emphasis on FAITH. For example, consider Hebrews 11:7:

    “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became HEIR OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS BY FAITH.”

    Furthermore, Hebrews 11 says nothing about a works-based salvation or the Romanist concept of "infused grace". The wonderful deeds performed by the various saints mentioned in this chapter occurred because of their faith in God. In other words, their works sprang from their trust in the Lord.

    You then bring up Abraham and Genesis 12. I do believe that this was the moment of his justification before God. Genesis 15:6 is simply the proclamation of Abraham's salvation as a result of his faith and a promise to future followers that they will be saved by the same means: by trusting in the Lord.

    "No, it isn't"

    Do I really have to cite the Scriptural references that I provided above and expand on them? If so, then we would only be repeating ourselves. Furthermore, it is not as if you will ever listen to what I have to say about anything (that's how I feel sometimes).

    "It is the catholic church that teaches that god judges a man righteous. It is protestants who claim that they can declare themselves so, by faith alone."

    Phooey on your Catholic bias! How many works mustbwe do to get saved? Isn't Jesus' work on the cross sufficient to save us from our sins? The last part of your statement implies serious misrepresentation on your part. In reality, it is God, not us, who declares who is righteous because of faith.

    And if a person were to start bragging about his or her alleged "salvation", then his or her judgment is probably clouded by the prince of this world. Those individuals are deceiving themselves and are thus living a lie.

    It is the Roman Catholics who arrogantly believe that they can merit the Kingdom of God by their own righteousness. In the Scriptire passages discussing salvation and justification, the Apostle Paul mentions works in the context of boasting (i.e. Romans 3:27-28). Hence, one of the reasons we are NOT justified by any works.



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    Replies
    1. Why do you refer me to Hebrews 11? What is your point? I don't get it.

      It's very simple. Hebrews 11:8 refers to Genesis 12, the first time we see Abraham in Scripture. At that point, his name is Abram. And Hebrews 11 says that he responded to God by faith. Yet, he is not saved at that point. Therefore, Abraham was not saved by faith alone.

      All that I know is that this context places a major emphasis on FAITH. For example, consider Hebrews 11:7:

      Because Catholicism places a major emphasis on faith. Our good works are by faith. We believe in faith and works. Not works alone. Not faith alone. Faith without works is dead.

      “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became HEIR OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS BY FAITH.”

      Excellent! Let's break that down.

      By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

      By faith, Noah worked. Look at all the rest of the people mentioned. The formula is always the same. By faith, they worked and were saved.

      It's never, by faith they were saved and then worked.

      Furthermore, Hebrews 11 says nothing about a works-based salvation

      Neither does the Catholic Church. Hebrews 11 was written by a Catholic. And it describes salvation by FAITH and works.

      or the Romanist concept of "infused grace".

      Infused grace is a technical term which was coined many centuries after the Bible was written. However, we know that grace is infused because the Holy Spirit is indwelled.

      You see, Protestants don't believe that grace can be given to human beings. But, if our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, there is nothing incompatible with our being infused by God's grace.

      Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

      The wonderful deeds performed by the various saints mentioned in this chapter occurred because of their faith in God.

      Amen! Faith and works.

      In other words, their works sprang from their trust in the Lord.

      Amen!

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    2. Cont'd

      Jessie said:
      You then bring up Abraham and Genesis 12. I do believe that this was the moment of his justification before God.

      You're the only Protestants who believes that. However, since Catholicism teaches that justification is a process, that fits the Catholic mode.

      Genesis 15:6 is simply the proclamation of Abraham's salvation as a result of his faith and a promise to future followers that they will be saved by the same means: by trusting in the Lord.

      1. That says nothing about salvation.
      2. It says that he is declared righteous because of his faith.
      3. St. James says that it predicts his justification in Genesis 22.

      James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
      18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
      19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
      20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
      21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
      22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
      23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
      24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

      Notice how, in verse 21, he declares that Abraham was reckoned righteous when he offered Isaac upon the altar. That is a reference to Genesis 22.

      Genesis 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

      Then, in verse 23, he says that Abraham believed God and was imputed righteous. That is a reference to Genesis 15:6.

      Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

      Thus, St. James says that Abraham was not justified until Genesis 22. And Scripture can not be broken.

      Do I really have to cite the Scriptural references that I provided above and expand on them?

      Sure. That way I can explain them to you.

      If so, then we would only be repeating ourselves. Furthermore, it is not as if you will ever listen to what I have to say about anything (that's how I feel sometimes).

      That's because you're wrong.

      Phooey

      Lol! Really?

      on your Catholic bias! How many works mustbwe do to get saved?

      How much faith must we have before we declare ourselves saved? And how do you measure faith? Can you read hearts?

      Jeremiah 17:10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

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    3. cont'd

      Jessie also said:
      Isn't Jesus' work on the cross sufficient to save us from our sins?

      If we follow in His steps, yes.

      Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

      The last part of your statement implies serious misrepresentation on your part. In reality, it is God, not us, who declares who is righteous because of faith.

      On the contrary, it is the Catholic Church which Teaches that God is our Judge. It is Protestants who usurp His judgment and declare themselves saved by their faith alone.

      And if a person were to start bragging about his or her alleged "salvation", then his or her judgment is probably clouded by the prince of this world. Those individuals are deceiving themselves and are thus living a lie.

      I agree. Protestants do that all the time. It is Protestants who claim that they are saved. Ask any of them. You also claim to be saved.

      It is the Roman Catholics who arrogantly believe that they can merit the Kingdom of God by their own righteousness.

      On the contrary, Catholics await God's judgment. We never claim to be saved by faith or works. Ask any of us. When a Protestant asks, "are you saved?" Our answer, invariably, is, "I don't know."

      In the Scriptire passages discussing salvation and justification, the Apostle Paul mentions works in the context of boasting (i.e. Romans 3:27-28). Hence, one of the reasons we are NOT justified by any works.

      Romans 3:27 and 28 are a reference to the Sacraments. And we can understand them much better if we correlate them to Titus 3:5.

      Notice:

      Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

      Not by works of righteousness "WHICH WE HAVE DONE". In other words, we must do good works. But the works don't save us. Read Matt 25:31-46. Those who do good are not saved by their works. But they are saved by God.

      Those who do not do good works, are not saved. Period.

      Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

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    5. De Maria,
      (Part 3)

      First of all, I am going to comment on your denial of Genesis 15:6 as being about salvation. But if you are declared righteous by faith in God's eyes, then you must be saved. If, as you claim, that this passage has nothing to do with salvation, then why do both James and the Apostle Paul use it when discussing the topic of salvation and justification?

      The Apostle Paul clearly mentions the word justified in the context of being saved, whereas James occupies the term in the sense of vindication (v. 18). He argues against a salvation that is alone, that is, devoid of works in the Christian life. Are you just talking the spiritual talk or actually walking the spiritual walk (v. 14-17)? Faith and works must accompany each other because works are the evidence of our salvation. Lastly, James provides a few examples to illustrate his point (v. 21-26). Both writers are talking about two different subjects.

      "That's because you're wrong"

      De Maria, you seem to be a little puffed up here. Are you right because you are right? Isn't this the very behaviour condemned by Paul (1 Corinthians 4:1-4)?

      "How much faith must we have before we declare ourselves saved? And how do you measure faith? Can you read hearts?"

      Any amount of faith can save anybody from condemnation in hell, as long as it has a desire to grow through the nourishment of the milk and the strengthening of the meat of the Word of God.

      Of course, we cannot measure an intangible object. But simply recognizing that a person's soul is at risk of being condemned is not the same as determining his or her fate.

      No, we cannot read the minds of people. But we can see that a person is lukewarm through his or her actions. Our deeds are the evidence of the state of our hearts.



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    6. De Maria,
      (Part 4)

      "If we follow in His steps, yes."

      The sufficiency of Christ's work is not determined by a man's obedience to Him (Hebrews 10:10-18). People will inevitably end up in hell because they chose that eternal destiny.

      "On the contrary, it is the Catholic Church which Teaches that God is our Judge. It is Protestants who usurp His judgment and declare themselves saved by their faith alone."

      We look to the Scriptures as the ultimate standard of conduct and morality (1 Timothy 3:14-15; 2 Timothy 3:15-17). And based on them, we are able to recognize other people's state of heart by their works. Humbly accepting what God has provided us with is not the same as usurping His authority.

      "Romans 3:27 and 28 are a reference to the Sacraments. And we can understand them much better if we correlate them to Titus 3:5."

      How does this relate to the Sacraments!? Paul emphatically says that salvation is apart from the merit of works in Romans 3:27-28. It says nothing about infusion or rituals that somehow confer grace.

      What does Titus 3:5-7 have to do with the concept of Sacraments? It says A.) Salvation is completely unmerited and B.) Talks briefly about spiritual conversion and the gospel, and C.) Nothing about rituals that confer grace.

      Of course, nobody denies the importance of good works in the Christian life. But isn't it ironic that you appeal to a text that directly refutes your position?

      In Romans 2:13, the Apostle Paul was rebuking a group of Jews who arrogantly thought that they could keep the Law perfectly. He points to the fact that they had failed to do so and that they were thus a bunch of lost hypocrites.

      The point behind Romans 2:13 is that those who rely on and fail to keep the Law to God's perfect moral standards are doing it it vain. Later on, Paul goes on to talk about justification. And it's mdone by faith apart from the merit of works.

      But why is it wrong to have at least a little assurance of salvation (i.e. John 5:24; 6:32-58; 1 John 5:11-13)? How does having assurance of salvation equal usurping God's authority and being grandiloquent? We've been through this many times before.

      The mere fact that you so grossly mischaracterize people who believe in the biblical doctrine of Sola Fide shows me that this conversation needs to be terminated now. I am doing my best to remain polite. In fact, I was hoping that you would indulge me instead.

      Delete
    7. [b]Jessie LangeDecember 6, 2016 at 9:13 PM
      De Maria,
      (Part 3)

      First of all, I am going to comment on your denial of Genesis 15:6 as being about salvation. But if you are declared righteous by faith in God's eyes, then you must be saved. [/b]

      In a manner of speaking. But not “once saved always saved.” Which the preponderance of Protestants believe. Therefore, when speaking to them, I make a difference between salvation and justification, in order to maintain clarity.

      The Catholic Church believes we are saved at Baptism because we are justified therein. But the Catholic Church does not teach OSAS.

      If, as you claim, that this passage has nothing to do with salvation, then why do both James and the Apostle Paul use it when discussing the topic of salvation and justification?

      In the texts we are studying, they use the word, justified.

      The Apostle Paul clearly mentions the word justified in the context of being saved, whereas James occupies the term in the sense of vindication (v. 18).

      They both use it in the context of being righteous before God.

      He argues against a salvation that is alone, that is, devoid of works in the Christian life. Are you just talking the spiritual talk or actually walking the spiritual walk (v. 14-17)? Faith and works must accompany each other because works are the evidence of our salvation. Lastly, James provides a few examples to illustrate his point (v. 21-26). Both writers are talking about two different subjects.

      Neither St. James nor St. Paul contradict the Scriptures. Scripture is clear that we must produce good fruit if we want to be saved.

      Matthew 3:10
      And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

      ”That's because you're wrong"

      De Maria, you seem to be a little puffed up here. Are you right because you are right? Isn't this the very behaviour condemned by Paul (1 Corinthians 4:1-4)?


      I’ve shown you by Scripture and by Tradition. Are you puffed up for trying to pass on Protestant errors?

      Any amount of faith can save anybody from condemnation in hell,

      On the contrary, Scripture makes the case against such an idea in the strongest terms.

      James 2:19
      Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

      1 Corinthians 13:2
      And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.


      as long as it has a desire to grow through the nourishment of the milk and the strengthening of the meat of the Word of God.

      The Word of God is passed down through the Church. But you have too much pride to submit to the Teaching of the Church.

      Hebrews 13:
      7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

      Of course, we cannot measure an intangible object. But simply recognizing that a person's soul is at risk of being condemned is not the same as determining his or her fate.

      Do you claim to be saved by your faith alone? Yes or no?

      No, we cannot read the minds of people. But we can see that a person is lukewarm through his or her actions. Our deeds are the evidence of the state of our hearts.

      That is for God to Judge:

      Matthew 7:
      2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
      3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
      4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
      5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

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    8. Jessie LangeDecember 6, 2016 at 9:52 PM
      #4

      The sufficiency of Christ's work is not determined by a man's obedience to Him (Hebrews 10:10-18).


      True. But not the same thing. Unless you claim that all men are saved because of Christ’s sacrifice, you have to admit that one must obey God in order to apply Christ’s sacrifice to his own salvation:

      Hebrews 5:9
      And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

      People will inevitably end up in hell because they chose that eternal destiny.

      True. Because they chose to obey wickedness and not righteousness.

      Romans 6:16
      Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

      We look to the Scriptures as the ultimate standard of conduct and morality (1 Timothy 3:14-15; 2 Timothy 3:15-17).

      Then you contradict Scripture.

      1 Timothy 3:14 These things write I unto thee,

      Notice that he doesn’t say, “I write these things so that you can rely upon them alone.” In fact, he says entirely differently. Read what follows.

      hoping to come unto thee shortly:

      Why is he coming if he already wrote? In order to explain what he wrote:

      Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
      16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, …

      15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

      Notice also, that he is concerned how they behave in the Church. Why? Because it is very important to God. Read Heb 10:25-31. I won’t post it in order to save space. But, in that sequence, he explains that missing the Mass, is the same as insulting the Spirit of Grace which saved them in the Sacrifice of our Lord. A direct Teaching of the importance of the Eucharist.


      And based on them, we are able to recognize other people's state of heart by their works. Humbly accepting what God has provided us with is not the same as usurping His authority.

      On the contrary, you are twisting Scripture to your own destruction. God has nowhere abdicated His power to judge souls:

      Romans 14:10
      But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

      cont'd

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    9. #4 cont'd

      Jesse said:
      How does this relate to the Sacraments!? Paul emphatically says that salvation is apart from the merit of works in Romans 3:27-28. It says nothing about infusion or rituals that somehow confer grace.

      You don’t recognize them because you have rejected the Teaching of Jesus Christ. Here, let me show you another example which is about the Sacraments but you won’t understand.

      John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

      He that is washed, is a reference to the Washing of Regeneration. The Sacrament of Baptism.
      But he needs his feet washed because he has “walked”. Which is a reference to walking by faith. This is a reference to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Even those who are baptized must confess their sins and be justified before God, again:

      2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
      20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


      What does Titus 3:5-7 have to do with the concept of Sacraments? It says A.) Salvation is completely unmerited and B.) Talks briefly about spiritual conversion and the gospel, and C.) Nothing about rituals that confer grace.

      It is a direct reference to Baptism. Where we are washed of our sins, by the outpouring of grace of the Holy Spirit, because of our faith. Note that the only ones’ that are qualified to receive this blessing are those who have done works of righteousness. Although we are not justified by the works we have done, only those who have done works of righteousness will receive the washing of regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

      Of course, nobody denies the importance of good works in the Christian life. But isn't it ironic that you appeal to a text that directly refutes your position?

      It directly refutes your position. You simply don’t understand the Scripture because you have no basis for understanding the Word of God.

      cont'd

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    10. #4 cont'd again,

      Jesse said,

      In Romans 2:13, the Apostle Paul was rebuking a group of Jews who arrogantly thought that they could keep the Law perfectly. He points to the fact that they had failed to do so and that they were thus a bunch of lost hypocrites.

      The text is amply clear. Not the hearers of the law will be justified. So, if you have learned what the law requires, whether by word or by reading and you refuse to obey, you will not be justified.

      But if you keep the law, whether you heard it or read it or whether you do it because it is written in your heart, you will be justified in the eyes of God.

      The point behind Romans 2:13 is that those who rely on and fail to keep the Law to God's perfect moral standards are doing it it vain. Later on, Paul goes on to talk about justification. And it's mdone by faith apart from the merit of works.

      On the contrary, unless you do righteous works, you aren’t even considered for justification. Only those who do works meet for repentance are justified.

      But why is it wrong to have at least a little assurance of salvation (i.e. John 5:24; 6:32-58; 1 John 5:11-13)?

      There’s nothing wrong with that. Claiming that one knows he is absolutely saved because he has earned it by his faith alone, that is the problem.

      How does having assurance of salvation equal usurping God's authority and being grandiloquent? We've been through this many times before.

      Yep. Having assurance, i.e. having the hope of salvation, is not usurping God’s authority.

      1 Thessalonians 5:8
      But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

      Claiming to know that you are saved, that is the sin:

      1 Corinthians 10:12
      Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

      The mere fact that you so grossly mischaracterize people who believe in the biblical doctrine of Sola Fide shows me that this conversation needs to be terminated now. I am doing my best to remain polite. In fact, I was hoping that you would indulge me instead.

      Ok, thanks for engaging for a short time.

      Delete
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  15. Hi Dr Maria,
    (Part 1)

    "Then why do Protestants decide for themselves that they are saved by their faith alone? How does that attitude not contradict this verse?"

    If a person were to start bragging about his or her alleged "salvation", then his or her judgment is probably clouded by the prince of this world. Those individuals are deceiving themselves and are thus living a lie. But, discerning truth from error and recognizing that a person is in need of a Savior is entirely different than determining whether he or she is worthy of salvation (nobody really is).

    "Read it again. Ask yourself this question. Who claimed to have done good works? Did God agree with them?"

    The professing "Christians" were the ones who claimed to have done good works (v. 22). God did not agree with them because their hearts were not right with Him and they placed their trust in worldly things (v. 22-23). But the context of this passage plainly reveals that works flow from a genuine faith in the Lord (v. 20). Why were these people sent to hell if good works saved them?

    Additionally, we are obligated to ask what the will of the father is. According to Scripture, it is believing and trusting in Jesus Christ alone (John 6:29;40).

    "That is true. But they also determine whether we are worthy of salvation (Matthew 10:38)."

    Your interpretation of Matthew 10:38 has clearly been read into the context. A person who has a genuine mental conviction that Jesus is the Christ will by definition be more than willing to carry his or her cross to follow Jesus. In other words, a desire for holiness grows as a result of fellowship with God through faith in His Son.

    "Wrong. Read your history. The Catholic Church condemned both pelagianism and semi-pelagianism."

    Therefore, your Church better practice what it preaches!


    And lastly, I should tell you the the Eucharistic sacrifice is another discussion for a different time in the future. Though interrelated,
    it is still a different subject.






    ReplyDelete
  16. De Maria,
    (Part 2)

    "It's very simple. Hebrews 11:8 refers to Genesis 12, the first time we see Abraham in Scripture. At that point, his name is Abram. And Hebrews 11 says that he responded to God by faith. Yet, he is not saved at that point. Therefore, Abraham was not saved by faith alone."

    I just quickly read over Genesis chapter twelve. But I have yet to see how your connection to Hebrews 11 proves that justification is a process, rather than a one time event. What leads you to believe that Abraham was not justified at this point? How does your conclusion that Abraham was not saved by faith alone follow from your previous statements?

    "Because Catholicism places a major emphasis on faith. Our good works are by faith. We believe in faith and works. Not works alone. Not faith alone. Faith without works is dead."

    If we are saved by grace through faith in God, then we cannot be saved by works (Romans 11:6). In other words, you cannot be saved by both at the same time. You are either saved by fairhor by works.

    "By faith, Noah worked. Look at all the rest of the people mentioned. The formula is always the same. By faith, they worked and were saved.
    It's never, by faith they were saved and then worked."

    Having faith equals justification, which produces works as a result. Faith is what saves the ungodly (Luke 23:39-43; Romans 5:1). Notice that in Hebrews 11:7, Noah became righteous by HIS FAITH in God.

    "You see, Protestants don't believe that grace can be given to human beings. But, if our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, there is nothing incompatible with our being infused by God's grace."

    Grace is an undeserved, unmerited gift given to mankind by God out of His infinite love for us for the sake of our eternal salvation (Luke 18:9-14; John 3:16; Romans 4:4-5; Ephesians 2:8-9). This is something we are not able to earn because we simply don't deserve it.

    Protestant: Faith leads to justification and works happen as a result.

    Catholic: Faith+ Works= Justification

    You and me are clearly not saying the same thing.




    ReplyDelete